Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[OLDBUTNEW]

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13

Good one, sister; If this doesn't give them the message, then I don't know what will!

 

[HeIsHere]

Good one, sister; If this doesn't give them the message, then I don't know what will!

Out of context.

 

[Jordon]

Good one, sister; If this doesn't give them the message, then I don't know what will!

It's gives them a message alright lol, it tells then they can express there free will as much as they want

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

It's gives them a message alright lol, it tells then they can express there free will as much as they want

@Jordon : I like it, bro! Good one!

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Out of context.

Out of context.

@HeIsHere : No, it's not out of context at all!

 

[Magenta]

How did we determine we don’t have free will without using our will to say it’s not free?

Nobody has said that man does not have volition, but the Bible, which is what we actually use to determine that the will of the unregenerated natural man is not free, because that is well and truly what the Bible teaches and explicitly articulates in a number of ways across a number of verses, does teach that the natural man is hostile in his mind toward God, opposed to the spiritual things of God, unable to submit to or obey God, and is a lover of darkness, and slave to sin, who refuses to come into the light because his deeds were evil, and he doesn't want them exposed... He can neither receive nor understand the Spiritual things of God. His choices are made out of his nature, and his nature is opposed to God until he is indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God, which allows him to receive and understand the spiritual things of God, as God draws Him with loving kindness, and more is revealed.

Perhaps dial your rhetoric back a bit to take a more reasonable stance so you can look at it from the viewpoint of what Scripture teaches. Both Jesus and Paul teach man's innate inability, though we have a number of people here denying it. Where Scripture says man is unable or cannot, they will actually say, man is able and man can... because they conflate what the spiritual man is enabled to do with what the natural man is able to do even though Scripture says he cannot. Then they will tell us it doesn't make sense, heh, but since when are our ways His ways? Or they say God is kidnapping people against their free will if He acts unilaterally and that makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster and the offer of salvation a hoax. They say God does not act unilaterally. Do you agree with them? All have turned away, there are none good, the heart of man is incurably wicked, with the heart one believes, who can bring a clean thing out of that which is impure? Scripture answers this question by saying nobody can, and Jesus backed this up, of course, a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, who then can be saved, He was asked, and answered, that with man it was impossible, but with God all things are possible, again we are explicitly told it is not by the desire or will of the flesh as free willers claim it is, but by the desire and will of God. And that all good things come from heaven, meaning from God...

 

[Magenta]

@HeIsHere : No, it's not out of context at all!

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...rcise-free-will.218061/page-1109#post-5609532

 

[Jordon]

There's many arguments going on here in this thread @OLDBUTNEW

I'll give you the run down.

God saves you verses You get to choose

All you have to do is believe verses God enables you in your fallen condition

Mankind is no longer born with a sinful nature verses he is.

Adam and eve was created with free will verses he wasn't

Faith is gift verses faith is your own

Calvinism verse Arminians all tho there is none here.

God allowing bad things to happen verses he doesn't

Irresistible grace verses enabling grace all tho there both the same thing really


Adam made a sincere confession in the garden verses he never

Adam was not decieved in the garden verses he was

Adam sold him self to sin verses he never

Free will is the ability to choose verses it not.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

There's many arguments going on here in this thread @OLDBUTNEW

I'll give you the run down.

God saves you verses You get to choose

All you have to do is believe verses God enables you in your fallen condition

Mankind is no longer born with a sinful nature verse he is.

Adam and eve was created with free will verses he wasn't

Faith is gift verse faith is your own

Calvinism verse Arminians all tho there is none here.

God allowing bad things to happen verses he doesn't

Irresistible grace verses enabling grace all tho there both the same thing really


Adam made a sincere confession in the garden verse he never

Adam was not decieved in the garden verses he was

Adam sold him self to sin verses he never

Free will is the ability to choose verses it not.

@Jordon : Got it! Great work, Bro! Thanks for this; it helps a lot.

 

[cv5]

Of course. They are hypocrites. They say they are here to correct error and promote truth, but you never see them answer questions that would reveal truth or correct anything their buddies say in error.

@Cameron143 little buddy, you have FAILED to address the following lexical study:
Likewise, @Magenta , @OLDBUTNEW , @NightTwister , @Jordon , @BillyBob and the rest.
Why pray tell? Not packing the gear to engage in legit scholarship? Or you CHOOSE to ignore because this yet another airtight case against Calvinism?

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5609169

[Rom 10:9 NKJV]
that ***if G1437*** you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με, τὰς ἐντολάς μου τηρήσετε. (John 14:15) "If you love me (and you might), you will keep my commandments."

***************************************************************

Even the most cursory examination of the application of this Greek construction used throughout the Bible deconstructs and demolishes every Calvinist pretention there ever was or ever will be.

Calvinism is done buddy. All done. But despite the undeniable truth, you and your crew remain in denial.
Therefore, in conclusion, you CHOOSE error and CHOOSE obfuscation rather than RECEIVE this accurately presented doctrine.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Out of context.

The NIV, from which that translation is, appears to have a Calvinist slant, and has been accused of having such. The Christian Reformed Church was involved in its translation. Of all the bible translations on biblehub.com the NIV and the Amplified bibles are the only ones that translate the idea of being enabled to come to God.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

@Cameron143 little buddy, you have FAILED to address the following lexical study:
Likewise, @Magenta , @OLDBUTNEW , @NightTwister , @Jordon , @BillyBob and the rest.
Why pray tell? Not packing the gear to engage in legit scholarship?

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5609169

[Rom 10:9 NKJV]
that ***if G1437*** you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με, τὰς ἐντολάς μου τηρήσετε. (John 14:15) "If you love me (and you might), you will keep my commandments."

***************************************************************

Even the most cursory examination of the application of this Greek construction used throughout the Bible deconstructs and demolishes every Calvinist pretention there ever was or ever will be.

Calvinism is done buddy. All done. But despite the undeniable truth, you and your crew remain in denial.
Therefore, in conclusion, you CHOOSE error and CHOOSE obfuscation rather than RECEIVE this accurately presented doctrine.

@cv5 : You know where you can stick your "buddy" terminology, mate!

 

[cv5]

@cv5 : You know where you can stick your "buddy" terminology, mate!

Sure buddy whatever you say.....

 

[Jordon]

@Cameron143 little buddy, you have FAILED to address the following lexical study:
Likewise, @Magenta , @OLDBUTNEW , @NightTwister , @Jordon , @BillyBob and the rest.
Why pray tell? Not packing the gear to engage in legit scholarship?

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5609169

[Rom 10:9 NKJV]
that ***if G1437*** you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με, τὰς ἐντολάς μου τηρήσετε. (John 14:15) "If you love me (and you might), you will keep my commandments."

***************************************************************

Even the most cursory examination of the application of this Greek construction used throughout the Bible deconstructs and demolishes every Calvinist pretention there ever was or ever will be.

Calvinism is done buddy. All done. But despite the undeniable truth, you and your crew remain in denial.
Therefore, in conclusion, you CHOOSE error and CHOOSE obfuscation rather than RECEIVE this accurately presented doctrine.

Thanks buddy nay i just say confessions are worthless if you don't mean them

Jesus dies for all mankind but not all mankind will die for him

And you've still left out you are saved in his living hope

Also You've left out repentance is given after examination of Gods penitence ..

But if you truly cared buddy and would seriously try to stop making us look bad by appealing to the lords forgiveness and emotionalism. Of the human heart

You would start adding to scripture the right way m

 

[Cameron143]

@Cameron143 little buddy, you have FAILED to address the following lexical study:
Likewise, @Magenta , @OLDBUTNEW , @NightTwister , @Jordon , @BillyBob and the rest.
Why pray tell? Not packing the gear to engage in legit scholarship?

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5609169

[Rom 10:9 NKJV]
that ***if G1437*** you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με, τὰς ἐντολάς μου τηρήσετε. (John 14:15) "If you love me (and you might), you will keep my commandments."

***************************************************************

Even the most cursory examination of the application of this Greek construction used throughout the Bible deconstructs and demolishes every Calvinist pretention there ever was or ever will be.

Calvinism is done buddy. All done. But despite the undeniable truth, you and your crew remain in denial.
Therefore, in conclusion, you CHOOSE error and CHOOSE obfuscation rather than RECEIVE this accurately presented doctrine.

If you believe in your heart, God has already changed it...Ezekiel 36:26-27. And if you confess the Lord Jesus, the Spirit already indwells you...1 Corinthians 12:3. But don't let these truths stand in your way. You choose error and obfuscation rather than receive it.

Looks like Arminianism is done little buddy.

 

[Believer08]

@cv5 @Bible_Highlighter if we don’t have free will, then what are people using to determine we don’t have it? And whatever they are using, did they freely choose to believe that? Or is it programmed in their minds to believe whatever it is they were supposed to believe, without giving them the choice to be able to freely choose it?

If we have no free will, then people who are arguing against having it are only doing what they were forced/programmed to believe, and vice versa.

Having no free will is an indefensible position, because if we didn’t have it, then both people who affirm and deny are simply programmed like a robot to do such.

 

[Magenta]

The NIV, from which that translation is, appears to have a Calvinist slant, and has been accused of having such. The Christian Reformed Church was involved in its translation. Of all the bible translations on biblehub.com the NIV and the Amplified bibles are the only ones that translate the idea of being enabled to come to God.

How would you interpret it being granted by God? Is the meaning vastly different in your estimation? Do you think being granted means being given because those given by God to Jesus do come to Him ... there are no ifs, ands, or buts. So it cannot be that... It is certainly not said that somebody is given to Jesus by God and then they are allowed to make a choice whether to come or not.

Hey, are you going to ask he is here what she thinks about you having direct divine unique personal interventional experiences with God to the point of having prophetic things that came to pass revealed you?

 

[Jordon]

@cv5 @HeIsHere @Genez @Bible_Highlighter

Repentance is given after penitence

2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV)
10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV)

Matthew 5:3 (ESV)
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Psalms 51 (ESV)
1 Have mercy on me, O God,according to your steadfast love;according to your abundant mercyblot out my transgressions.2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,and cleanse me from my sin!3 For I know my transgressions,and my sin is ever before me.

1 John 1:7 (ESV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from
all sin


John 5:14 (ESV)
14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you."

 

[Magenta]

@cv5 @Bible_Highlighter if we don’t have free will, then what are people using to determine we don’t have it?

I would not expect Biblical answers from CV5 since he would rather blaspheme God than admit what Scripture actually says if it contradicts his opinion, which is borne of his very vile imagination in such cases, which is too often. And B_H announced his departure from this thread.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

How would you interpret it being granted by God? Is the meaning vastly different in your estimation? Do you think being granted means being given because those given by God to Jesus do come to Him ... there are no ifs, ands, or buts. So it cannot be that... It is certainly not said that somebody is given to Jesus by God and then they are allowed to make a choice whether to come or not.

The word means to draw, as in this verse

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3​

​

The basic meaning is “to draw,” “tug,” or, in the case of persons, “compel.” It may be used for “to draw” to a place by magic, for demons being “drawn” to animal life, or for the inner influencing of the will (Plato). The Semitic world has the concept of an irresistible drawing to God (cf. 1 Sam. 10:5; 19:19ff.; Jer. 29:26; Hos. 9:7). In the OT hélkein denotes a powerful impulse, as in Cant. 1:4, which is obscure but expresses the force of love. This is the point in the two important passages in Jn. 6:44; 12:32. There is no thought here of force or magic. The term figuratively expresses the supernatural power of the love of God or Christ which goes out to all (12:32) but without which no one can come (6:44). The apparent contradiction shows that both the election and the universality of grace must be taken seriously; the compulsion is not automatic.

Abridged Theological Dictionary of the New Testament