Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Believer08
Guest
I wish I could say I had a problem of understanding your understanding of Calvinism. But I don’t. I believe what the Bible says. You believe what Calvin says, thus you do not believe the Bible.
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Believer08
Guest
You have told me what Calvinism says. If I was clinging to lies, I’d believe what you do.
I have quoted the Bible multiple times, and Calvin not once.
I don't think you like what the Bible says. It confuses you and you get caught up in logical fallacies trying to understand it
through the lens of all your presuppositions. I suggest you just let it say what it says. You certainly will not find "free will."
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Believer08
Guest
That sounds more like a conspiracy theory than the truth. I am more than willing to be corrected if I have misunderstood or misrepresented your beliefs in any way. While I may not agree with your belief or the way you choose to label it, that does not mean I forfeit the right to describe what I observe about those beliefs from my own perspective. We can agree to disagree not only about the belief itself but also about how we categorize or label it.
Disagreement over labels is not the same as dishonesty. You could say I am mistaken or misinformed and we can discuss that. But accusing me of lying crosses a line, because that implies malicious intent rather than a simple difference in understanding.
....
Tell us again how you, @Magenta , @Rufus , @Jordon had absolutely no clue whatsoever that Moses went up and down Mt. Sinai at least seven times as a consequence of hammering out the detailed negotiations to the Covenant.
And how you feel spasmodic pangs of remorse at your woeful abysmal ignorance, the sum of which have driven you all to earnest contrition.....
Oh and BTW, Mt. Sinai is certainly located in Western Saudi Arabia. And none of you know that either....
That is the type of things people who don't like what the Bible says, say.
For instance you keep harping about people being puppets. Your view is skewed.
But in light of that, or despite that, what do you think of these verses?
Do you think if anyone believes what they say it makes them a Calvinist?
Even though Calvin came along hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years later?
Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.
Not related to salvation, used as one word not two the way free willers do.
People making choices does not equate to having a will that is free.
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Believer08
Guest
Continue being a puppet.That is the type of things people who don't like what the Bible says, say.
For instance you keep harping about people being puppets. Your view is skewed.
But in light of that, or despite that, what do you think of these verses?
Do you think if anyone believes what they say it makes them a Calvinist?
Even though Calvin came along hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years later?
Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.
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OLDBUTNEW
Guest
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Believer08
Guest
Still says freewill. And if they had freewill to do something, then they’d also have freewill to want to be saved.
So you really don't believe what the Bible says but want to pretend you do and fool others into thinking you do. Got it.
If context does not matter to you, that is another you problem.
Man does have volition and makes choices, but this does not equate to having a will that is free.
People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.
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OLDBUTNEW
Guest
More accurately, robotically recited Calvinist dogma candy coated with Bible verse sprinkles.....
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