Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

Again, the idea of Calvinism does not work in Psalm 107.
There is no abrupt change in their behavior that was unnatural like a forced regeneration.
They cried out unto God and then God delivered them.
It was not they were rebelling against God's Word and all of a sudden they just dropped their torches and pitchforks and just started loving God and their neighbor.

The idea of crying unto God is not needed in Calvinism.
Its all about a forced regeneration (salvation) that leads to a belief.
Crying unto God meets nothing in Calvinism.


Side Note:

Oh, and I would encourage you to stop reading commentaries and just read the Bible and ask God for the understanding, even if you may not like that truth. Sadly, most believers today cannot think on what the Bible says unless a pastor or Bible commentator is talking in their ear. Granted, I am not saying that other believers cannot be helpful at times, but we need no man to teach us ultimately.

1 John 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."




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ok well your idea must have the whole bible worked out.

Well so you know what narrow minded means.

Well here it is

I have worked the whole bible out because Calvinism doesn't exist in this verse.

Excuse me why I go and bash my head in

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

ok well your idea must have the whole bible worked out.

Well so you know what narrow minded means.

Well here it is

I have worked the whole bible out because Calvinism doesn't exist in this verse.

Excuse me why I go and bash my head in

I am saying that if Calvinism were true, then the many things shown in the Bible would simply not happen.
While Psalms 107 may not be the iron clad case you would need to disprove Calvinism in your mind, I think you do need to look critically at your own system in light of all Scripture (of course).

Again, how do you explain Psalms 7:11?
Why would God be angry at the wicked every day if He can just change that with a forced regeneration?
In short, God does not need to be angry at the wicked because in Calvinism, He was the one who forced them to remain that way.

There is also Jonah 3.
Jonah told the Ninevites that that in 40 days Judgment was coming from God.
But that judgment did not happen because the Ninevites cried out to God and they forsaken their evil ways.
It says God turned back on the wrath He was going to bring upon them.
So it was what the Ninevites did that changed God's judgment and not some kind of forced regeneration.

I mean, how can you read the Bible and ignore things like this?

Deuteronomy 30:19 says I set before you life and death, and then God says to choose life.
Again, this concept does not exist in Calvinism.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that those who perish face destruction because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved. Again, nothing here about how they perish because God did not elect them or gave them some kind of forced regeneration.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 explicitly says that they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved as the reason why they perish. Again, no forced regeneration is mentioned here.




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[BillyBob]

That is where Prevenient Grace comes in. Granted, I prefer to call this a Temporary Enablement or Enlightenment that frees the will so that they can either believe the gospel or reject it under God's drawing, conviction, and opening of their heart. There is no place in the Bible that teaches a regeneration first (salvation) that is then followed by a belief. We see continually the biblical pattern of they believe and then they are born again and saved.

There is no place in the Bible that teaches [ Prevenient Grace]. God does not play games, although it seems that is what you would like to believe in order to claim that you earned your salvation by making the right choice.
Grace is not something humans can earn, nor does it enable them to earn, it is an unmerited favor, of God's goodness and love toward those who are undeserving.

It is:

• Forgiveness and salvation which was made possible by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
• A divine ability and strength to overcome sin and please God.
• It is a gift not a reward - Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast".

When God pours out His grace there is no need of a choice, it is a done deal!

 

[Jordon]

I am saying that if Calvinism were true, then the many things shown in the Bible would simply not happen.
While Psalms 107 may not be the iron clad case you would need to disprove Calvinism in your mind, I think you do need to look critically at your own system in light of all Scripture (of course).

Again, how do you explain Psalms 7:11?
Why would God be angry at the wicked every day if He can just change that with a forced regeneration?
In short, God does not need to be angry at the wicked because in Calvinism, He was the one who forced them to remain that way.

There is also Jonah 3.
Jonah told the Ninevites that that in 40 days Judgment was coming from God.
But that judgment did not happen because the Ninevites cried out to God and they forsaken their evil ways.
It says God turned back on the wrath He was going to bring upon them.
So it was what the Ninevites did that changed God's judgment and not some kind of forced regeneration.

I mean, how can you read the Bible and ignore things like this?

Deuteronomy 30:19 says I set before you life and death, and then God says to choose life.
Again, this concept does not exist in Calvinism.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that those who perish face destruction because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved. Again, nothing here about how they perish because God did not elect them or gave them some kind of forced regeneration.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 explicitly says that they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved as the reason why they perish. Again, no forced regeneration is mentioned here.




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The life long work of John Calvin life was devoted to every single verse in the bible

And It was devoted to this your work is devoted to cherry picking

Calvin dealt with many reasons believers suffer, including, among others, stimulation to prayer, trust in God’s power, teaching patience, encouraging hope, evidence of obedience, leading one to a higher relationship with God, being led to seek God’s help, having pity on others, and preparing for eternal glory.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

When God pours out His grace there is no need of a choice, it is a done deal!

I think you mean pours out his spirit. Grace is not something that gets poured out.

 

[Cameron143]

In John 15:5 when Jesus tells Christians that they can do nothing apart from Him, what is included in nothing? Does nothing mean nothing like all means all? Does this only apply to Christians? Can unbelievers do things apart from Jesus?

 

[Genez]

yep and once again we see the attitude of why your telling us God's word, because where all. Stupid and going to hell.

You are stupid for thinking that is what I mean.

 

[NightTwister]

If we are talking about Calvinism, there is no choice. In Calvinism, its only one option that will happen. It starts with a regeneration (salvation), and then it is followed by a belief in the gospel (only option). After a regeneration of the heart, there is no chance that they would reject the gospel in Calvinism. So there is no real choice here. A choice is when you can choose between options A, and B. That is not what happens in Calvinism when it comes to believing the gospel. Why do you think they call it, "Irresistible Grace"?

Yeah, you've said that many many times on this thread. You're wrong. But I understand why you think you need to be right.

 

[Jordon]

You are stupid for thinking that is what I mean.

well it's not the only time you've called us stupid

And for the third time in asking I still don't see a public apology for declaring and out right telling Cameron he was going to hell, which was totally out of order

 

[Rufus]

They have to want truth.... I do not see any of them questioning, rethinking, re-examining even as the flaws in their interpretation of scripture is exposed, nope they double down.

People do break away, I read the testimonies all the time, but each one came to a place of discomfort with the system.

I find it ironic that one of their premier teachers, John Piper, named his website Desiring God.

I mean really ..

Why do you find that "ironic"? Aren't the gracious gifts of Heart Circumcision and the Fear of the Lord precisely about instilling NEW desires into the human heart so that sinners can desire God? Aren't these new desires what the new creation is all about?

 

[Genez]

Faith comes for the unsaved thought the active fear of the lord inside of them.

After faith is given it is the lord faith in you that you have.

Not your own

Faith is the Thinking of Christ!
He lived by the Word 100%.
He was the Word made flesh.

Faith... We must grow and mature into the fullness of Christ.
That means?
Finding a source for accurate exegesis of Scripture.
Discovering God's provision for you.
For you to be knowing more and more of God's Word in accuracy.

There are some others in this world.
But, here is one I know of who is capable of doing the job right.
And, without asking for money.

https://www.rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Jesus warned us that many will be saved, but that only a few will "find it."
Find the Grace Life that God wants his believers to live and walk in.

Most won't.

Jesus said so.

Not going to Hell.
Just not going to be rewarded in eternity with beautiful, Divinely appointed rewards.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. ​

​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only ​

as one escaping through the flames.​

​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

 

[Genez]

well it's not the only time you've called us stupid

And for the third time in asking I still don't see a public apology for declaring and out right telling Cameron he was going to hell, which was totally out of order

God should apologize first, then?
Right here!

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​

but whoever hates correction is stupid. Proverbs 12:1​

Demand that God apologize?
Then I will do the same when that truth changes.

.

 

[Rufus]

It was what you said. God doesn't love them therefore they cannot love.

How can a God-hating world love God apart from HIS efficacious, supernatural work of Heart Circumcision? Plus we know with certainty that God did not promise this divine work to each and every person in the world w/o exception, since the promise was directed and is limited to God's covenant people. God has not made any redemptive covenant with the world. God, therefore, is obligated to fulfill his promise to only His chosen, covenant people.

 

[Rufus]

You are talking from inside a helmet that covers your entire head and face.
All you can hear is yourself.

Well, I can't hear from you! It looks like you're certainly not up to the task of answering my question about favoritism and what the basis would be for such favoritism by God since all mankind is steeped in sin. So...if this question isn't above your pay grade, I would love hear from YOU with an intelligent, rational, coherent answer (operative terms highlighted!).

 

[Rufus]

God should apologize first, then?
Right here!

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​

but whoever hates correction is stupid. Proverbs 12:1​

Demand that God apologize?
Then I will do the same when that truth changes.

.

Why should God apologize? He didn't insult anyone -- YOU did!

 

[Rufus]

I am saying that if Calvinism were true, then the many things shown in the Bible would simply not happen.
While Psalms 107 may not be the iron clad case you would need to disprove Calvinism in your mind, I think you do need to look critically at your own system in light of all Scripture (of course).

Again, how do you explain Psalms 7:11?
Why would God be angry at the wicked every day if He can just change that with a forced regeneration?
In short, God does not need to be angry at the wicked because in Calvinism, He was the one who forced them to remain that way.

There is also Jonah 3.
Jonah told the Ninevites that that in 40 days Judgment was coming from God.
But that judgment did not happen because the Ninevites cried out to God and they forsaken their evil ways.
It says God turned back on the wrath He was going to bring upon them.
So it was what the Ninevites did that changed God's judgment and not some kind of forced regeneration.

I mean, how can you read the Bible and ignore things like this?

Deuteronomy 30:19 says I set before you life and death, and then God says to choose life.
Again, this concept does not exist in Calvinism.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that those who perish face destruction because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved. Again, nothing here about how they perish because God did not elect them or gave them some kind of forced regeneration.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 explicitly says that they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved as the reason why they perish. Again, no forced regeneration is mentioned here.

How could God force the inherently wicked to remain in the natural condition in which they love? He doesn't have to force them to do anything, except to remain in their natural state, which means they will never seek God, trust him or repent of their sins.

And, yes, the concept of man's moral duty/responsibility does exist in the Reformed Faith. All the commands of the bible are to inform sinners and saints alike of their moral duty.




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[Rufus]

I have a question for all FWers: Is God's will free to do as he pleases?

 

[Solitude]

I have a question for all FWers: Is God's will free to do as he pleases?

God's will is always free.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

finally where getting somewhere I feel sorry for you I really do, you've said many times something desiring the best is equipping you

Please provide the post submitted by me wherein you believe I stated "something desiring the best is equipping you". Thank you.

So I said well sin is desiring to control me would sin be equipping me as well. It was said to you to open your eyes to something.

Because not only is sin desiring to have me but so does God's enemy.

please provide the post submitted by you wherein you believe you stated "sin is desiring to control me would sin be equipping me as well".

I have not stated what you claim.
You have not stated what you claim.

It is difficult to discuss Scripture with you because you make claims about who said what ... when what you claim was never stated.

So now moving on

you recognise you can be controlled by a bad spirit, then, then you say i must be being controlled by the wrong spirit,

Does this mean you Can be controlled by the right spirit ?

Or is it only a wrong spirit can control you

when you misrepresented what I have stated, was that you because you were "controlled by a bad spirit" ... or was that because you were drawn away by the lusts of your flesh which resulted in you having sinned (lied).

James 1:14-15

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

.

 

[Solitude]