Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Bible_Highlighter]

2 Corinthians 4 v 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Corinthians 4:4 is a powerful verse that refutes Calvinism. The passage is speaking about the same gospel message found in 1 Corinthians 15:1–4—that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day for our salvation. This is how a person is first saved: by believing the gospel when it is presented to them. When someone believes, the light of the gospel removes the blindness that Satan had placed upon their heart. The verse does not describe a forced regeneration that occurs before belief, as Calvinism teaches, but rather shows that faith in the gospel is what brings spiritual sight and life.




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[cv5]

What is the moral problem that you speak of?

Fairness. The ONLY truly unprejudiced ultimately fair system of salvation is......free will belief.
Rich or poor, Jew or Greek, great or small, great sins or little, great labor or little.
Doesn't matter.

The angelic host (good and evil) behold the spectacle of salvation, and no accusation shall stand.

[Mat 20:8 KJV]
So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

[Mat 20:9 KJV]
And when they came that [were hired] about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

[Mat 20:10 KJV]
But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

[Mat 20:11 KJV]
And when they had received [it], they murmured against the goodman of the house,

[Mat 20:12 KJV]
Saying, These last have wrought [but] one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

[Mat 20:13 KJV]
But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

[Mat 20:14 KJV]
Take [that] thine [is], and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Well God bless you to sir

But why should my reply to you be seen as me not addressing what you said, or why should my reply be seen for the invalid reason you state.

Well it's because the will of the flesh has a tendency to go with the first thought more often than not sir.

And again whislt you may think I'm doubling down im not
Even in the bible sir God will deliver a message to a persons heart, and he will answer how he sees it with his first thought, It's why God declares be bereans of the word to test the scripture to see if they align with God.

It's like Peter or Judas, they where delivered a message to there hearts and yet they where led by the will of the flesh.

So again sir you see a message coming from the persons heart but do you always notice the message that was delivered and the reason why,. Well no because quite often here, people read the lords faith being answered as there own faith,.and they miss the reason why it was delivered.

So which ever way you go sir the will of the flesh holds it's self above God unless you can discipline it with his internal will

Again, you are not addressing the actual problem in the Calvinistic version of God you believe in.
Until you do, there is no point of mincing words on other points as if that makes the problem go away.
You need to face the problem.



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[Bible_Highlighter]

Over time, the Reasonable must learn when not to try to reason with the Unreasonable.

Noah had to learn when to ignore them, as to keep busy building his boat.
Keep growing in grace and knowledge. Prepare your own ark.

The mystery of iniquity is at work.
Might as well try to convince the devil to become a missionary.

They have CHOSEN the voice they listen to.
The Devil knows Scripture!
The more you give them, the more they will feel inspired by being fed more of their own.

Hmmm, not sure your position here.
Are you for Calvinism or are you against it?



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[Bible_Highlighter]

They do not have a moral problem with their soteriology because the character of God is not the one described in scripture.

I agree this is a struggle for some.

There are those who hold to the Calvinistic view of God even though, deep down, they know it does not align with Scripture. No amount of real-world examples seems able to pierce their conscience and bring them to see the moral problem of their belief.

Others may simply not recognize the moral dilemma yet because they have not chosen to face it. But once a person truly believes that God’s goodness and morality are perfectly consistent in everything He does, they will eventually let go of this unbiblical belief system.



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[cv5]

What is the moral problem that you speak of?

Oh and BTW little buddy, if you did not know (and I am sure that you do not), the crux, the heart of the matter that is salvation is thus:
The fallen angels, created perfectly righteous and holy, DID SEE and DO NOT RECEIVE and REFUSED to believe.
Whereas we, mere men, corrupted by sin, DID NOT SEE and DO RECEIVE and DO BELIEVE.

 

[Jordon]

Again, you are not addressing the actual problem in the Calvinistic version of God you believe in.
Until you do, there is no point of mincing words on other points as if that makes the problem go away.
You need to face the problem.



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oh I see, is it Calvinistic to live by God's will ?

 

[Genez]

Hmmm, not sure your position here.
Are you for Calvinism or are you against it?
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TULIPS were meant for tombstones.
That, they are good for.

Irresistible grace amounts to roughshod grace.

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, but Calvinists believe they own the stock.

We were chosen and predestined -Not to be saved, but to be born during the Church age, because the Father chose the Bride for His Son.

Calvinists are saved.
But, they are a mess.

 

[Jordon]

TULIPS were meant for tombstones.
That, they are good for.

Irresistible grace amounts to roughshod grace.

Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, but Calvinists believe they own the stock.

We were chosen and predestined -Not to be saved, but to be born during the Church age, because the Father chose the Bride for His Son.

Calvinists are saved.
But, they are a mess.

which means what exactly ?

That the way you where saved was better than anyone else ?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

It is not as if anyone is born a believer. Gosh. Nobody rejects the gospel to become an unbeliever. They are born that way.

Added: That means something has to happen for them to become a believer, the opposite of your claim.

And that something begins with God acting unilaterally, another thing
that gets denied and contradicted by at least one of our FW proponents.

I believe the ability to believe comes through what is often called Prevenient Grace, though I prefer to describe it as Temporary Enlightenment or Enablement.

This is not a forced regeneration upon the heart that compels belief as if no other choice existed. Rather, God temporarily frees the mind, heart, and will so that a person can either accept or reject the gospel.

Man does not get the glory for choosing God by his own strength, for it is God who enables him to reach a genuine state of free will. Without this divine drawing or enablement, no one could believe. Yet Christ draws all men, meaning that at some point in their lives, each person will be confronted with the truth.

When Scripture says that the Lord opened Lydia’s heart, Calvinists see regeneration. I see it as temporary enlightenment, an enablement of the will to understand and respond to the gospel. This does not guarantee belief, but it gives a person the full spiritual capacity to either receive or reject the message when it is revealed to them.




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[Jordon]

I believe the ability to believe comes through what is often called Prevenient Grace, though I prefer to describe it as Temporary Enlightenment or Enablement.

This is not a forced regeneration upon the heart that compels belief as if no other choice existed. Rather, God temporarily frees the mind, heart, and will so that a person can either accept or reject the gospel.

Man does not get the glory for choosing God by his own strength, for it is God who enables him to reach a genuine state of free will. Without this divine drawing or enablement, no one could believe. Yet Christ draws all men, meaning that at some point in their lives, each person will be confronted with the truth.

When Scripture says that the Lord opened Lydia’s heart, Calvinists see regeneration. I see it as temporary enlightenment, an enablement of the will to understand and respond to the gospel. This does not guarantee belief, but it gives a person the full spiritual capacity to either receive or reject the message when it is revealed to them.




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again you call it forced

Does a parent have to control there child's behaviour ?

 

[pinebeach]

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."​

​

- Philippians 1:9​

well let's just throw any ole verse into the fray, shall we?

 

[Genez]

I believe the ability to believe comes through what is often called Prevenient Grace, though I prefer to describe it as Temporary Enlightenment or Enablement.

This is not a forced regeneration upon the heart that compels belief as if no other choice existed. Rather, God temporarily frees the mind, heart, and will so that a person can either accept or reject the gospel.

Just as grace will control our flesh if we walk in the Spirit, God sovereignly grabs hold of the flesh of someone He is drawing, and silences the depravity effects upon the soul of the one He is presenting thoughts to.

In that way, a soul will be free to either accept, or reject, the thoughts presented to them in the freedom of the privacy of their own mind.
God searches the thoughts as to determine who is savable, or not.

Once the power of grace is understood, and how it has the ability to control the sin nature (by God's sovereign choice) for the unbeliever, one can begin to understand the means by which we reach the point when the Father hands a soul over to His Son to save.

It takes knowledge of sound doctrine to see.

 

[Genez]

well let's just throw any ole verse into the fray, shall we?

OK... be that way.

That is why people will be in Hell.
They made their choices.

God made us free to think and decide.

No one is going to effectively blame God for anything.

 

[Genez]

well let's just throw any ole verse into the fray, shall we?

No one forces insight upon another.

For, it requires insight to have it.

Columbus sensed reasons why the world was not flat.
Not everyone believed it.

 

[pinebeach]

OK... be that way.

That is why people will be in Hell.
They made their choices.

God made us free to think and decide.

No one is going to effectively blame God for anything.

I'm thinking you do not have a grip on reality

 

[Magenta]

I believe the ability to believe comes through what is often called Prevenient Grace, though I prefer to describe it as Temporary Enlightenment or Enablement.

That's a lovely thought, though completely unBiblical. I do understand
that 1 Cor 2:14 is a fave verse for free willers to contradict and deny.

The gospel is foolishness to the natural man, since he can neither accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. It is impossible for his incurably wicked heart to grow the seed of God’s Word into the good fruit of faith while he is captive to the will of the devil. Along with the rest of the world who does not know God, he is blinded to the truth and under the power and influence of Satan, rendered incapable of submitting to or obeying God, with Whom he is inherently hostile toward in his mind, for he craves what is contrary to the Spirit. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to come into the light because he is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, and his deeds are evil.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

again you call it forced

Does a parent have to control there child's behaviour ?

Well, to an extent, yes. But if that control is sinful and harmful to the child or unloving, then that can negatively affect the child?
Control can be lost if such darkness or wickedness is employed.


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[Jordon]

Well, to an extent, yes. But if that control is sinful and harmful to the child or unloving, then that can negatively affect the child?
Control can be lost if such darkness or wickedness is employed.


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well at least you love acknowledge something sir, but sadly your still on the path of thinking it's a Calvinistic thing to control for the wrong reasons,

Have you ever made the mistake of controlling something for the wrong reason ?

 

[Cameron143]

It is as simple as an "unbeliever" in scripture is a person who has rejected the Gospel, otherwise how could they be unbelievers?

Of course @Cameron143 tells us that no person can believe unless they are regenerated first, but that
notion is completely absent from scripture.

RF