Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[GWH]

The answer can be either, "Yes"or "No."
All depending upon on our current status with God's grace (which saves us).
Grace saves us from our inability to do as God desires of us.

We can not operate to exercise moral free will if we operate in our own power = energy of the flesh.
Yes, we can, if God's grace is being operational towards us by freeing our soul from the oppression of the depravity of our flesh.

Yes, God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to seek salvation (Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6, cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11). As Hebrews 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19). Seeking God is the beginning of saving faith, and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity to repent/have saving faith (per Rom. 1:20, 2:7, 3:21-22, 4:16 & 5:8-19).

Thus, sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose to seek salvation–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19). That is why Paul went “every Sabbath to the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4)! “He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” (Acts 28:23b) “Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.” (Acts 28:24) “They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul made this final statement: The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet, ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, for this people’s heart has become calloused.'” (Acts 28:25-27a, cf. 2Tim. 3:7)

Regarding the human heart, we can see that it is “deceitful… and beyond cure” (Jer. 17:9) when it becomes calloused (cf. Matt. 23:37), but the uncalloused heart is enabled to seek salvation and find God (per Matt. 7:7 & Heb. 11:6). God’s enabling of seeking is not irresistible, it does not pry open a hardened heart, and it does not continue forever (Rom. 10:10-13, Heb. 3:12-19).

 

[Magenta]

The Valentinian Christian gnostics had a peculiar view of grace. They considered it their own special possession

"For they declare that we [Christians] simply receive grace for use, wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable union; and on this account more will be given them.

"On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to them who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [ie, heaven], but the seed [of grace] sent forth thence in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection. "

Against Heresies, book 1, chapter, 6, paragraph 4

According to how some here define gnosticism and gnostic, you would classify as one.

 

[Magenta]

It is admittedly quite disturbing how many reject deny and contradict what Paul said (since he did very clearly teach on man's innate inability), but then again they knew it would happen... And come to think of it, these free willers are so confident in what they believe that they give themselves permission to rewrite the very words of Jesus Christ Himself.

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Cameron143]

Nope.
Here's their excuse......you provided it yourself: "its God's fault". Same excuse as Satan uses.

"It was not given to those who don't believe to believe on Christ."

I never placed blame on God either, but, instead, showed from scripture why man is himself held accountable.
You guys really are dishonest.

 

[Cameron143]

29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,

Notice:

1. Paul does not use the noun "faith" he uses the infinitive verb "to believe"
Paul is not stating faith is gift in the verse, nor is he speaking about saving faith.

I can explain further if you need a lesson in grammar.

2. According to the BDAG "granted" is explained using "privilege" also has the meaning of "opportunity"
Confirmed by non-Calvinist scholars like Norman Geisler.
Calvinists seem to scoff at exegesis and context, so we now this will be refuted.

The Philippians have been given opportunity/privilege to believe along with being given the opportunity/privilege to suffer for Christ Jesus.

It is a choice people make, just like suffering, even as a privilege for all people who chose to believe, this in no way means it is unconditional selection by God of an created class of beings for salvation.

Now go mining for other verses with words like "given" so we can de-calvinize them. Thank you.

#contextkillscalvinism

One only has to go back 1 verse to see it is not talking about the opportunity of salvation but salvation itself is in view. Verse 28 speaks of the salvation of God. How is it of God? The Apostle goes on to explain: unto you it is given...to believe on Him...

 

[HeIsHere]

One only has to go back 1 verse to see it is not talking about the opportunity of salvation but salvation itself is in view. Verse 28 speaks of the salvation of God. How is it of God? The Apostle goes on to explain: unto you it is given...to believe on Him...

Salvation is the gift of God.

Easy Peasy.
Next!!

#contextkillscalvinism

 

[Cameron143]

Salvation is the gift of God.

Easy Peasy.
Next!!

#contextkillscalvinism

And yet it says it was given them to believe on Him. Sounds like faith is bequeathed as well.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nope.
Here's their excuse......you provided it yourself: "its God's fault". Same excuse as Satan uses.

"It was not given to those who don't believe to believe on Christ."

Amazing, man is still held accountable by Romans 1, even though God did not create and select them for regeneration.

How blind does one have to be to see how non-biblical that is.

 

[rogerg]

Okay, the context begins with Titus 1:1-3, "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--in the hope of eternal life, which God , who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior."

We might note that these words are akin to what Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:3-10, and the command occurred on the road to Damascus.

After giving instructions regarding elders, rebuking anti-Christians and teaching Christians including slaves, Paul said the following that is further context for the verses you cited, "The grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people" (Tit. 2:11). This statement is akin to John 3:16, 1Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:9.

Then after a brief instruction regarding subjection to rulers, Paul made the comment you cited (Tit. 3:4-7), "When the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by grace , we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."

We might note that the phrase "God our Savior" is found also in 1 Tim. 3 and is echoed by the phrase "JC our Savior". God's grace is mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-10, but the most extensive context for the meaning of this term is Romans 3:21-5:11.

Would you like to lead our discussion at this point?

In reviewing your post last night, I noticed that you mainly included boilerplate verses, related remarks, and restated the actual verses, but you did not offer detailed analysis or discuss your interpretation as to what the verses mean, as was expected of this exercise. As a result, your point of view was withheld, and since you chose to do so, I’m uncertain as to how you might interpret them. If you choose to accept them as written, I would fully concur with that interpretation. But by that, you deny people the capacity to achieve or influence their own salvation. So, which is it? Based upon those verses, from your perspective, do you think it is within man’s prerogative to cause his own salvation or can he not? Do these verses stand alone, or are there other relevant verses that will alter their meaning that should be factored in? Those are the key questions that you left unanswered. Please provide justification to any conclusions you might posit.
Therefore, while my understanding of those verses is that they are self-evident, needing nothing beyond what they state, I will reserve posting my full, detailed analysis until after you’ve posted yours since you started this off, so that I can respond to it.

 

[Rufus]

The fear of the Lord leads to life, that one may rest content, without visitation from harm. Proverbs 19 v 23 He who fears the Lord is secure in confidence, and his children shall have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death. Proverbs 14 v 26-27 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9 v 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1 v 7 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor. Proverbs 15 v 33 His mercy extends to those who fear Him, from generation to generation. Luke 1 v 50 By the fear of the LORD one turns aside from evil. Proverbs 16 v 6B
I think this panel is done, now. I replaced her eyes and lips, removed the philtrum under her
nose, enlarged her whole face, gave her a new neck, and made other edits as per usual...
I also added a couple of more verses on the fear of the Lord. .

I love those passages, especially Prov 19:23; for there are plenty of biblical illustrations of this truth -- how God-Fearers in scripture invariably come to the Lord seeking His forgiveness in Faith.

Here's another such example that I don't think I shared yet. It has to do with the Ethiopian in Acts 8 to whom God sent Philip to preach the gospel. This is another passage that uses the Gr. term proskuneo (Strong's 4352), which means (literally or figuratively) to prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore) -- these attributes being at the core of Fear of the Lord.

And Prov 15:33 is mind-boggling, especially when we apply it to Jesus! He came into this world lowly, meekly and humbly as the faithful, loyal Servant of his Father; for He delighted in the Fear of the Lord (Isa 11:3). Then...the God-hating world murdered Him. But then afterwards, he was exalted in Glory (honor)!

 

[Genez]

is there nar.

The only thing at play here is free will born out of sin nature, and your above all attitude which thinks everyone one else is poorly indoctrinated apart from yourself.

If you are being controlled by the Spirit?
Have you been granted the power over the sin nature, to have free will?

What do you think 1 John 1:9 is for?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins ​

and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". ​

​

Its to get you back in fellowship after you had freely chosen to commit some sin!
Believers have had their free will restored to make choices.

 

[Rufus]

Not the belief itself. That must come from the person.

The capacity for believing is freed up when the Holy Spirit restrains the flesh as to allow the soul to think for itself.

More doublespeak from you! For you do not believe that the Holy Spirit's work in restraining the flesh is efficacious. Therefore, the Spirit's work is not the primary cause for anyone's salvation. In FWT, this leaves all efficacy to the human will! The human will is the ultimate cause behind everyone's salvation, which in your world accounts for why the vast majority of the world is hell-bound. The human will accounts for the difference between why some men believe and the vast majority do not.

 

[Rufus]

Give us some for a change, and we will find out....

Won't hold my breath waiting.

I have given everyone plenty of truth -- but you like the world have no love for the truth!

 

[Genez]

Yes, and God's justice in hell is perfectly loving, because He gave every sinner the opportunity to go to heaven.

Hell was created as an act of both Justice and Love.

Justice for the immutably wicked.

And, love for his people, whom the wicked would have tormented forever if not isolated from them.

 

[Genez]

More doublespeak from you! For you do not believe that the Holy Spirit's work in restraining the flesh is efficacious. Therefore, the Spirit's work is not the primary cause for anyone's salvation. In FWT, this leaves all efficacy to the human will! The human will is the ultimate cause behind everyone's salvation, which in your world accounts for why the vast majority of the world is hell-bound. The human will accounts for the difference between why some men believe and the vast majority do not.

First of all, I have no idea what your concept of efficacious means to you.
Explain that as you see it to mean, please. .

And, you keep presuming all over the place, as if we grew up together and you know me, but make mistakes about me all the time.
Your battle is with people you have known in the past. Not me.

 

[Rufus]

Unquestionably the precise location of the Crucifixion is...... bullseye on top of Gol of Gaths (Goliath's) skull.

Fulfilling Gen 3:15.

"Unquestionably", heh? Then Shirley you have chapter and verse upon which you base your dogma?

 

[Cameron143]

Matthew 25:41 says the everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angels

 

[Genez]

I never placed blame on God either, but, instead, showed from scripture why man is himself held accountable.
You guys really are dishonest.

That logic?

You bite your foot, and then slap your mouth for biting it.

 

[Rufus]

Hell was created as an act of both Justice and Love.

Justice for the immutably wicked.

And, love for his people, whom the wicked would have tormented forever if not isolated from them.

Making scripture once again all about MAN! Your theology is totally man-centered!

And if all the wicked were "immutably wicked" and God's grace is not effectual, then from whence comes the power for the immutably wicked to change their wicked ways? How does man acquire a power that even God doesn't possess, since He cannot change his nature?

 

[Genez]

I have given everyone plenty of truth -- but you like the world have no love for the truth!

You are like a strange man who stays in a restroom, and screams at anyone trying to use it.

You have a problem.
Not knowing you have one, is also a bigger problem.