Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Yes, whether to believe God's Word or Satan's lie.

God's grace, enabling their soul to freely choose, removes all excuses for wanting to accept Satan's lie.

God's judgment will be perfect. There will be no rebuttals at the final judgment.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thus far, people have simply obfuscated without dealing with the verse itself.

Really the only thing that matters is that Paul does NOT state "saving faith" is a gift in Ephesians 2:8, therefore he certainly not going to be stating that anywhere else in his letters.

 

[Genez]

Is your precious "system" built on a selected number of mined out of context verses being challenged to a point where perhaps you cannot really defend it?

I take that as a good thing.

He does not know what he is talking about, and assumes everyone is just as confused as he is in understanding what the Word teaches,

 

[Jordon]

Is your precious "system" built on a selected number of mined out of context verses being challenged to a point where perhaps you cannot really defend it?

I take that as a good thing.

yep your a spiritual Fraud by denying it's Gods precious system and saying it's mine, the prick delivered to people conscience to keep hearts safe from predators.

Your an absolute joke to deny that

 

[Solitude]

Satan is the one who comes to rob and steal....

He would rob you of any good sense you make with the Word if you give what he says a chance.

Some of the worst detractors among believers causing staying from the strait and narrow, are ones who have a strong weakness
for envy and jealousy.

They don't want others to have what they fail to have. Failing to that, grace would supply them as well.
Envy and jealousy produces selective stupidity. It sets up its defense by denial of the truth presented them.

If they would only humble themselves by facing the exposed error that they have been finding mutual pride in.
They are cherishing that bond more than the Lord Himself. But, they will deny that as well.

Jealousy and denial go out on blind dates.

 

[Genez]

Re "If you learned how to properly ask a question you would not have to make that complaint so often.": So true,
and the proper question for this thread would be "Can we really not exercise moral free will?"

The answer can be either, "Yes"or "No."
All depending upon on our current status with God's grace (which saves us).
Grace saves us from our inability to do as God desires of us.

We can not operate to exercise moral free will if we operate in our own power = energy of the flesh.
Yes, we can, if God's grace is being operational towards us by freeing our soul from the oppression of the depravity of our flesh.

 

[Genez]

yep your a spiritual Fraud by denying it's Gods precious system and saying it's mine, the prick delivered to people conscience to keep hearts safe from predators.

Your an absolute joke to deny that

I think there is a cultural difference in thinking at play here.

 

[HeIsHere]

He does not know what he is talking about, and assumes everyone is just as confused as he is in understanding what the Word teaches,

Yeah not everyone can be a R. C. Sproul, a Martin Lloyd Jones or a Spurgeon and carry it off so well.

 

[Genez]

The verse is simple. It was given to saved individuals to believe on Christ. It was not given to those who don't believe to believe on Christ. It's no more complicated than that. When God gives to an individual to believe on Christ, they believe on Christ. If He doesn't, individuals remain in unbelief.

What the h_ll are you talking about? Go tell it to your drunk friends, who will toast you for your stand on sand.

 

[Magenta]

Calvinists seem to scoff at exegesis and context, so we now this will be refuted.

Yes, your silly arguments are refuted often. Whereas free willers never tire of dsputing and scoffing at proper
exegesis and context, and lying about their constant need to misrepresent Scripture, themselves, and others.
And let us not forget that you have zero verses articulating what you believe. Lots of castles in the air, though.

 

[cv5]

yep your a spiritual Fraud by denying it's Gods precious system and saying it's mine, the prick delivered to people conscience to keep hearts safe from predators.

Your an absolute joke to deny that

Well @Jordon buddy, failing to present your views using the Bible as a referential standard has you sounding three sheets to the wind.
Plenty of resources available buddy, please avail yourself of them.......

 

[cv5]

What the h_ll are you talking about? Go tell it to your drunk friends, who will toast you for your stand on sand.

That kind of drunk is DEFINITELY not the filled with the Holy Ghost type......

 

[Genez]

Yes, your silly arguments are refuted often. Whereas free willers never tire of dsputing and scoffing at exegesis
and context, and lying about their constant need to misrepresent Scripture, themselves, and others. And let
us not forget that you have zero verses articulating what you believe. Lots of castles in the air, though.

Well… Come on!
Show us how to do it then!

Give us your version for exegesis for Irresistible Grace!

It is the Calvinistic version of the same kind of convenience-thinking, like the Catholic's had their make-shift solution that gave us Immaculate Conception.

It is BS! And, yet, you want to feed it to us on a spoon like we are sitting in a high chair.

 

[Jordon]

I think there is a cultural difference in thinking at play here.

is there nar.

The only thing at play here is free will born out of sin nature, and your above all attitude which thinks everyone one else is poorly indoctrinated apart from yourself.

 

[Jordon]

Well @Jordon buddy, failing to present your views using the Bible as a referential standard has you sounding three sheets to the wind.
Plenty of resources available buddy, please avail yourself of them.......

I have no idea what bible you read, but the way you read it is utterly buttery.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Funny how the words "enabling grace" do not appear in that verse.

The Valentinian Christian gnostics had a peculiar view of grace. They considered it their own special possession

"For they declare that we [Christians] simply receive grace for use, wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable union; and on this account more will be given them.

"On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to them who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [ie, heaven], but the seed [of grace] sent forth thence in a feeble, immature state, and here brought to perfection. "

Against Heresies, book 1, chapter, 6, paragraph 4

 

[Kroogz]

29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,

Notice:

1. Paul does not use the noun "faith" he uses the infinitive verb "to believe"
Paul is not stating faith is gift in the verse, nor is he speaking about saving faith.

I can explain further if you need a lesson in grammar.

2. According to the BDAG "granted" is explained using "privilege" also has the meaning of "opportunity"
Confirmed by non-Calvinist scholars like Norman Geisler.
Calvinists seem to scoff at exegesis and context, so we now this will be refuted.

The Philippians have been given opportunity/privilege to believe along with being given the opportunity/privilege to suffer for Christ Jesus.

It is a choice people make, just like suffering, even as a privilege for all people who chose to believe, this in no way means it is unconditional selection by God of an created class of beings for salvation.

Now go mining for other verses with words like "given" so we can de-calvinize them. Thank you.

#contextkillscalvinism

Great and true post @HeIsHere

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL. Acts 16:31

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL believers to live in His plan for their lives.

 

[cv5]

Really the only thing that matters is that Paul does NOT state "saving faith" is a gift in Ephesians 2:8, therefore he certainly not going to be stating that anywhere else in his letters.

Yep. Likewise this Calvinistic "faith is a gift" business is never in any way or by any means used to describe the faith of father Abraham, our soteriological archetype.

 

[GWH]

God's grace, enabling their soul to freely choose, removes all excuses for wanting to accept Satan's lie.

God's judgment will be perfect. There will be no rebuttals at the final judgment.

Yes, and God's justice in hell is perfectly loving, because He gave every sinner the opportunity to go to heaven.

 

[HeIsHere]

Great and true post @HeIsHere

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL. Acts 16:31

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL believers to live in His plan for their lives.

Thanks a bit of me, but a lot of Norman Geisler.

Norman Geisler's book Chosen But Free (Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers, 1999),

When one has to decalvinize oneself, one has to find scholars who can assist in removing that lens.

Yet I fear the battle rages .. there is a lot of money in this "New Calvinist Movement" and I notice that even as AI searches the web it tends to spout Calvinist nonsense quite often.

I feel like this movement is about destroying the simple Good News and replacing it with complicated systems and rhetoric.

sigh.