This is a major point that is completely overlooked in todays churches......It leads to the false doctrine of loss of salvation and God is done with Israel.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Nephesh (soul) means breath too, specifically a breather and it was the breath of lives (plural) that God breathed into Adam ie. spirit and soul.
However, maybe I was not clear enough. I believe Is.57:16 is referring to believers, hence they would have had a human spirit. The preceding verse speaks of those who God is with.
Is.57:15-16
For thus says the High and Lofty One
Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy:
“I dwell in the high and holy place,
With him who has a contrite and humble spirit,
To revive the spirit of the humble,
And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16 For I will not contend forever,
Nor will I always be angry;
For the spirit would fail before Me,
And the souls which I have made.
To me, it is clear God is speaking of the spiritually alive in the above passage. I think it is an assumption therefore to think it refers to every single Israelite as having a spirit. (or every human being for that matter)
Another thing I contend is that, to the best of my knowledge, nowhere in scripture is the human spirit referred to as being created. It is said to born or given but never associated with any creative word. Yet the soul and body are both referred to as being made throughout scripture.
You are quoting a writer of scripture, of course they will be spiritually alive. (have a spirit)
It doesn't necessarily follow just because we find people throughout scripture having a spirit that all men are born with a spirit.
If nothing else Mem consider "Spirit gives birth to spirit" Jn.3:6 and it is that spirit that is needed to connect to God and be functioning spiritually. If it is born of God (and it is) how can it be non-functioning or "dead". God is life, He cannot produce death from or of Himself. Ergo, how can all men have a spirit? It would fly in the face of the God of Life to be giving men death. He is Spirit, our spirit is something of the very substance of God, it cannot be produced defunct.
Poor Calvinists. A couple of mouse clicks and poof there goes their dogma up in smoke.
Rom 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Rom 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
That insight would help explain why we find homosexuality among the human race.
Why God hates it so, and finds it deplorable.
Angels who were created with sexual ability were denied ANGELIC females. (Genesis 6:1-2)
In mercy, God's angels became recipients of the power of grace not to lust.
But, Satan and his angels?
They do not receive grace.
They lust and lust and lust.
And, hate man and woman having happy relationships.
In desperation, among themselves, they produced perverse counterfeits to satisfy their unquenchable lust.
Wake up girl.
Answers are being supplied now for us in a time, when Satanic power is gaining more control over the minds of men.
There is a door.
Stop being on the outside looking in.
grace and peace ............
The fear of the Lord leads to life, that one may rest content, without visitation from harm. Proverbs 19 v 23 He who fears the Lord is secure in confidence, and his children shall have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death. Proverbs 14 v 26-27 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9 v 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1 v 7 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor. Proverbs 15 v 33
Thank you for the inspiration .
Yes, everyone (save for Jesus) comes into this world born in Adam; but not everyone remains in Adam.
Since you believe in an efficacious atonement in the Genesis post-Fall narrative, then both the decree in Gen 3:15 and atonement coverings PRECEDED faith! Therefore, Faith could not have been the cause of the efficacy. God's decree alone and his efficacious POWER were the reasons behind Eve's reconciliation.
Moreover, Eve's both acknowledgements of God prove my point above. They came after God's decree and after God's atoning provision. In other words, God's Unconditional Election of Eve has ZERO conditions to it! God unilaterally determined that Eve belonged to Him, so He reconciled her to Himself. Eve's faith (both of the above acknowledgements) are the result of his expressed will for her that He made to the serpent. But when it comes to Christ's atoning work, you do not believe that Christ's atoning work was efficacious since you believe that that work merely made salvation possible when or if anyone exercised faith and repentance. But in Gen 3:15 the idea of mere possible reconciliation is nowhere to be found.
You FWers speak out of both sides of your mouth! In the Genesis narrative God's atoning provision is suddenly efficacious apart from any prior demands of faith; but in Jn 3:16, etc., his work is not efficacious since faith must precede salvation, redemption, reconciliation.
Mary came into this world born in Adam but she didn't remain in him since God, evidently, removed her from Adam's state of condemnation and death and brought her into a state of reconciliation and life in the Last Adam. So, yes, everyone dies in one Adam or the other. Ergo, there are two corporate spiritual bodies in this world.
The fear of the Lord leads to life, that one may rest content, without visitation from harm. Proverbs 19 v 23 He who fears the Lord is secure in confidence, and his children shall have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death. Proverbs 14 v 26-27 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9 v 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1 v 7 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor. Proverbs 15 v 33
Thank you for the inspiration .
I'm very pleased that you found my post edifying. And here's another awesome text in Acts that deals with this huge biblical theme:
Acts 2:5
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
And how did these Jews respond to Peter's gospel message?
Acts 2:40-41
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
NIV
And we both know that this unconditional, unilateral New Covenant promise was made only to God's chosen, covenant people. Nowhere in scripture does God promise to instill the Fear of Himself into each and every person in the world w/o exception.
Also, the promise to God's chosen people to circumcise their hearts is as equally indispensable in salvation; for only people with circumcised hearts can love the Lord -- and Love is just as crucial to one's salvation as the Fear of God is. (I plan on doing a study on this exceedingly important topic, Lord willing and the crik doesn't rise.) For example, of the positive effects of loving the Lord is that love does not boast nor is it arrogant (1Cor 13). In other words, one who loves the Lord was brought to a low, humble state so that he could see just how wretched, vile, naked and poor he is and how loving, gracious, patient, kind, righteous and holy his Redeemer is.
The world is already filled with unbelievers who are TOTALLY separated from the life of God in this life! What you should have said above is that ETERNAL separation "only occurs post GWT judgement". In this life people are either united with Christ or they remain united with Adam in whom they were born.
What you said above is nonsense. You might as well have said that a woman who became pregnant a month ago is not totally pregnant -- only a little bit.
You are welcome! I had meant to before, and I am still working on it... Here is where it is now:
The fear of the Lord leads to life, that one may rest content, without visitation from harm. Proverbs 19 v 23 He who fears the Lord is secure in confidence, and his children shall have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death. Proverbs 14 v 26-27 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9 v 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1 v 7 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor. Proverbs 15 v 33
Plus there were no prophets during the intertestimental period... the roughly 400 years betweenThe world is already filled with unbelievers who are TOTALLY separated from the life of God in this life! What you should have said above is that ETERNAL separation "only occurs post GWT judgement". In this life people are either united with Christ or they remain united with Adam in whom they were born.
What you said above is nonsense. You might as well have said that a woman who became pregnant a month ago is not totally pregnant -- only a little bit.
the Old and New Testaments, from the final prophet Malachi to the arrival of John the Baptist.
agree
nope ... if that was the case, what is written in Gen 3:21 would precede Gen 3:15 ... but the record is clear that ... first God declared the coming of the Promised Seed (Messiah) ... then in acknowledgment of faith on the part of both Adam and Eve, Adam changed the name of his wife from 'iššâ to ḥaûâ ... then God made sacrifice/offering to atone for sin and made coats to cover the shame of both Adam and Eve.Rufus said:
nope ... salvation is wholly by grace through faith ... both Adam and Eve believed as evidenced by God making sacrifice/offering and clothing both Adam and Eve.Rufus said:
what you claim I "do not believe" and/or "what I believe" is your opinion based on faulty understanding ... so quit projecting your erroneous surmising on to me.Rufus said:
Scripture is clear that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe which results in the promised blessing.
Scripture is clear that suppressing the truth in unrighteousness results in the consequence stated.
your error has been dealt with many, many times in this thread. You project your own surmising on to others ... you do not read what is being stated in response to your erroneous suppositions with clear comprehension ... then claim that what you believe others believe is "FWers speak[ing] out of both sides of [their] mouth!" when it is your own faulty conclusion that is error.Rufus said:
not sure why you brought this up as God's Word is clear that those who are born again are His children ... those who are not born again are not His children.Rufus said:
.
The fear of the Lord leads to life, that one may rest content, without visitation from harm. Proverbs 19 v 23 He who fears the Lord is secure in confidence, and his children shall have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death. Proverbs 14 v 26-27 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 9 v 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Proverbs 1 v 7 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and humility comes before honor. Proverbs 15 v 33
Thank you for the inspiration .
He who fears the Lord does not distort God's character to make their dogma work.
The Lord is fair and just.
God is no respecter of persons.
He shows no favoritism.
But, with one exception.
God will show favoritism when he chooses to save some, and to not save another who is just as equally depraved.
To do so, He must activate Irresistible grace to overwhelm the one he chooses to believe in Him, while leaving another
equally depraved, to suffer in the Lake of Fire.
That's a beautiful God you fear?
I know it was not your intent, but reading this made me feel sick to my heart.
People claim it is a soul destroying doctrine and it is.