Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

No, I was not forced anymore than Lazarus was forced from his tomb! Lazarus and I were both RESCUED from DEATH! I suppose you must think that God forced the ancient Hebrews to escape from Pharaoh's clutches, as well, right?

You were the one who said you were made willing to believe. Said nothing about being made alive.

You don't seem to know what you said. How can I trust you with what God says?

I'll pass.

Have a good one Rufus.

 

[Doll]

So the lost do have an excuse. The Lord is directing their steps to the LoF.

It's not a,their, choice with God directing their steps.

Except there is no LoF.
When it wasn't on the OT,it isn't in the New.

At least,not by God's creation.
People are born sperated from God.
When their body dies,it returns to the dust from which it sprang. And it's Soul to God who gave it.

Does that mean the unredeemed go to Heaven?

How many Heavens are in scripture?

When everything is of and from God,where else is there to go but back to the source?

 

[cv5]

So the lost do have an excuse. The Lord is directing their steps to the LoF.

The doctrine of the super-determinist has God getting all of the blame and none of the glory.

Satan is thrilled with their dogma no doubt. Suits his purposes to a tee.

 

[GWH]

yep I told you that in the last thread and now your turning it around on us.
Only I said it to showed it to you to show you how the lord operates
You use it to pity yourself

Yep, GW applies to all of us.

Very demeaning comments by he who says he does no such thing (GWH).

They just keep coming, he has quite a collection of them for one who says he doesn't do that.

But FWers love patting themselves on the back and giving themselves credit when/where none is due.

Apparently you and Jordon are unaware of the fact that I made my bet with Rufus rather than engage in demeaning ping pong,
as I do with you two also.

 

[Doll]

This is what happens when people don't quote entire posts. Deceitful people will alter texts or leave out portions in an attempt to alter the meaning of posts of others they disagree with.

And yet you gave my post a like. When what I posted was the parts of scripture you said in your post don't appear anywhere in the Bible.

Proving you were wrong.

I omitted the latter part of your post because it was incomprehensible double talk. I thought perhaps you were confused.

And for that I'm judged deceitful.
When the deceit is in you.
Transference.

You're just mean.

 

[Cameron143]

And yet you gave my post a like. When what I posted was the parts of scripture you said in your post don't appear anywhere in the Bible.

Proving you were wrong.

I omitted the latter part of your post because it was incomprehensible double talk. I thought perhaps you were confused.

And for that I'm judged deceitful.
When the deceit is in you.
Transference.

You're just mean.

I wasn't referring to you as deceitful. You reposted what someone else had changed and reposted in part.

 

[sawdust]

The Soul,which is of and from God, was put in the flesh by God.

It is the human spirit that is of and from God Jn.3:6, the soul is created by God Gen.1:27. We are souls, just as angels and demons are spirits. The soul reflects God but is not of His substance like our spirit. The soul is the seat of our personality and it is where we build character. The body contains the sin nature, the corruption inherited down the line from Adam, entrapping the soul in it's self-serving instincts. That, coupled with the cosmic system of thinking Rom.12:2 and the pressure applied by direct demonic attack (in some cases), serves to lead the soul astray and into corruption.

But grace intervenes in that process by controlling the flesh, providing light and truth and hedging the devil out so the soul can decide for itself how to respond to God according to it's own desires. Contrary to TULIP belief, not all men desire darkness for there are those who learn from the Father when He applies His grace and are drawn to Him for this is the normal state of what God intended for man. The soul is not born corrupt as the TULIP adherent demands and just how corrupt that soul becomes depends on how they respond to God's grace in the process. Some are more stubborn than others.

John 6:44-45
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

 

[Doll]

well it's also a guarantee that Seth's mother did not give birth to Seth without Adam.
.

No kidding.
Why are you contentious regarding those facts.

 

[Jordon]

Yep, GW applies to all of us.


Apparently you and Jordon are unaware of the fact that I made my bet with Rufus rather than engage in demeaning ping pong,
as I do with you two also.

yep am I still to believe you don't like encouraging rabbit trails to

 

[GWH]

My bible explicitly tells me God loves (with filial, covenant love) the righteous, God-fearers, believers and those who love Him and His
Son. Now, give me one explicit verse that says God's filial, covenant love extends as well to the wicked!

Just a reminder that I have already bet you that God's love extends to everyone,
and we await seeing who is right if/when we get to heaven but for anyone new to the discussion,
I will cite the following Scriptures for teaching that God loves and wants to save everyone: 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8,
Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4 (the “7 pearls”). Christ died to show God’s love
and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies: the ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ.

 

[Doll]

I wasn't referring to you as deceitful. You reposted what someone else had changed and reposted in part.

My apologies for taking your remarks personally. There was no such explanation at the time of your posting so I thought you were attacking me.

Please forgive my reflexive response. It wasn't fair of me to jump like that. I have read so many dark attackers here that I thought this was yet another one.

Again,I apologize and ask your forgiveness.

 

[sawdust]

If the person dies, and his body with the sin nature ceases to rule over his soul?

Will that soul still think the same way as it had while he was entrapped by the flesh?

He might initially as thinking can become habit but, assuming he has been in receipt of some truth and light by means of God's grace, there is a chance he may start to change his mind and see the truth for what it is. Does that mean he will naturally accept it? Who knows? Maybe yes, maybe no.

my 5c worth.

 

[Doll]

It is the human spirit that is of and from God Jn.3:6, the soul is created by God Gen.1:27. We are souls, just as angels and demons are spirits. The soul reflects God but is not of His substance like our spirit. The soul is the seat of our personality and it is where we build character. The body contains the sin nature, the corruption inherited down the line from Adam, entrapping the soul in it's self-serving instincts. That, coupled with the cosmic system of thinking Rom.12:2 and the pressure applied by direct demonic attack (in some cases), serves to lead the soul astray and into corruption.

But grace intervenes in that process by controlling the flesh, providing light and truth and hedging the devil out so the soul can decide for itself how to respond to God according to it's own desires. Contrary to TULIP belief, not all men desire darkness for there are those who learn from the Father when He applies His grace and are drawn to Him for this is the normal state of what God intended for man. The soul is not born corrupt as the TULIP adherent demands and just how corrupt that soul becomes depends on how they respond to God's grace in the process. Some are more stubborn than others.

John 6:44-45
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Thank you for your post.

 

[cv5]

It is the human spirit that is of and from God Jn.3:6, the soul is created by God Gen.1:27. We are souls, just as angels and demons are spirits. The soul reflects God but is not of His substance like our spirit. The soul is the seat of our personality and it is where we build character. The body contains the sin nature, the corruption inherited down the line from Adam, entrapping the soul in it's self-serving instincts. That, coupled with the cosmic system of thinking Rom.12:2 and the pressure applied by direct demonic attack (in some cases), serves to lead the soul astray and into corruption.

But grace intervenes in that process by controlling the flesh, providing light and truth and hedging the devil out so the soul can decide for itself how to respond to God according to it's own desires. Contrary to TULIP belief, not all men desire darkness for there are those who learn from the Father when He applies His grace and are drawn to Him for this is the normal state of what God intended for man. The soul is not born corrupt as the TULIP adherent demands and just how corrupt that soul becomes depends on how they respond to God's grace in the process. Some are more stubborn than others.

John 6:44-45
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Why do super-determinists always delete verse 45 from John 6 in the course of dialogue? It challenges their bogus dogma?

Somebody tell me I'm wrong.....

 

[cv5]

No, I was not forced anymore than Lazarus was forced from his tomb! Lazarus and I were both RESCUED from DEATH! I suppose you must think that God forced the ancient Hebrews to escape from Pharaoh's clutches, as well, right?

But you did have your own will shanghaied and kidnapped. Right?

And you never made a conscious willful decision to RECEIVE Christ. Right?

Furthermore, you yourself never applied the Blood to the doorpost and lintel of your house. Right?

Spot on determinist doctrine am I right?

 

[Genez]

He might initially as thinking can become habit but, assuming he has been in receipt of some truth and light by means of God's grace, there is a chance he may start to change his mind and see the truth for what it is. Does that mean he will naturally accept it? Who knows? Maybe yes, maybe no.

my 5c worth.

When God controls the flesh in the power of His grace?
And, a soul still ends up determined to reject God?

That could not constitute being sin in a usual way.

Keep in mind.
Jesus died for our sins.
He did not die for evil.

The rejection of God while under the freeing power of grace constitutes evil.

Evil minds end up in the Lake of Fire.
Grace makes a mind as free as the angels were free when they decided for themselves about the Lord.

 

[sawdust]

Is that where we are given a new heart? Because a heart of stone does not seek God in any way.

When Ezekiel referred to the "heart of stone" he was speaking to a people who were in exile. Why were they in exile? Because they had repeatedly (let me repeat that for the hard of hearing), they had repeatedly disobeyed the Lord God and therefore were in receipt of maximum discipline. They had hardened their heart to the max God would allow. Of course, not all had hard hearts (ie. Daniel and friends) but they had to suffer along with the nation.

There will come a time (Second Coming) when the Lord will dwell in their midst in a way they can no longer deny Him and therefore this is referred to as the time when they will receive a new heart.

 

[Solitude]

The doctrine of the super-determinist has God getting all of the blame and none of the glory.

Satan is thrilled with their dogma no doubt. Suits his purposes to a tee.

If that's how you see it, you're entitled to your view.

 

[sawdust]

I don't know why they just can't say regenerated. At least that would be Biblical!

Because that is not the new heart. The heart has to do with the values one holds and from which his thinking flows. Matt.12:35 Regeneration is about receiving a human spirit making us tripartite, through which the Spirit reveals His truth. Jn.3:6

We receive a new heart as we hear, learn and abide in the truth, renewing our thinking and hence, changing our values.

 

[sawdust]

Exactly. One must start with a clear statement and build from there... which, in the case of free will, there are no clear
statements concerning free will at all. In fact the Bible makes plain that man's will is enslaved. So there is that.

And yet God tells you to believe, a clear act of one's will, then you will be saved.

Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Believing always precedes saving.