Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
 
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cv5 said:
Both.
As has been resoundingly demonstrated, there are those on this thread who are authentic, genuine, legitimately scholarly and honest in word and spirit.

Aaaannddd those who are sneaky, deceptive, clueless, and just plain junk yard dog mean. Many are gleefully promoting the idea that God intentionally created souls for hell.

But, thank God, it is not particularly difficult to discern one cohort from the other. If you care to pay attention for more than 20 minutes.
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I find it interesting that those who use the argument that the "unselected" fit themselves for destruction, in an effort try to avoid the unpalatable doctrine of reprobation, suddenly put aside the whole god is sovereign mantra.

"Doctrines of grace" at their finest. :rolleyes:
 
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HeIsHere said:
I find it interesting that those who use the argument that the "unselected" fit themselves for destruction, in an effort try to avoid the unpalatable doctrine of reprobation, suddenly put aside the whole god is sovereign mantra.

"Doctrines of grace" at their finest. :rolleyes:
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It's all an unbiblical hoax conjured by Biblically illiterate pseudo-philosophers.

"The doctrine of Reprobation is a theological concept within Christian thought, primarily associated with the Augustinian and Reformed (Calvinist) traditions, and is understood as the flip side of the doctrine of Election (God's choice of certain individuals for salvation)."
 
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GWH said:
Hermeneutics works better when you triangulate from two clear statements such as “God is sovereign” and “God loves everyone”.
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What part of, there are zero clear statements about free will, do you not understand?

What part of, the natural man's will is enslaved to sin, do you not understand?

That he serves the law of sin? Cannot submit to or obey God?

His flesh bringing forth fruit unto death?
 
cv5 said:
It's all an unbiblical hoax conjured by Biblically illiterate pseudo-philosophers.

"The doctrine of Reprobation is a theological concept within Christian thought, primarily associated with the Augustinian and Reformed (Calvinist) traditions, and is understood as the flip side of the doctrine of Election (God's choice of certain individuals for salvation)."
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I was thinking on this because @Cameron143 used the argument "they fit themselves for destruction" but then I also realized that if they use this line of argumentation they are not being consistent with "god is sovereign/puppet master" argument.

It seems Calvinism lite looses coherence, it has to be all or nothing if one wants to be have a coherent system, I guess @Rufus keeps to the full system which is more coherent but yes it is completely un-biblical.

Others try to straddle a bit between biblical and unbiblical in order to win converts I guess.
 
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HeIsHere said:
I was thinking on this because @Cameron143 used the argument "they fit themselves for destruction" but then I also realized that if they use this line of argumentation they are not being consistent with "god is sovereign/puppet master" argument.
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Please show us where Cam said God was a puppet master. Or admit you are a shameless liar.
Number two seems more likely to be true, based on your history here.
Not that you are going to tell the truth.
Liars are averse to doing that.
 
Magenta said:
Ain't that the truth! He did not answer my question, either.

Not to mention, what I said was true. He called me out for something someone else said. That was plain in my post.
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yep he has a habit of not acknowledging things, it's called his free will born out of sin, all tho he would call that his choice given by God.

He also can't even acknowledge you have been attacked a hundred times in this thread.

That figure is probably well under estimated to

Anyhow it's his choice I guess
 
Jordon said:
yep he has a habit of not acknowledging things, it's called his free will born out of sin, all tho he would call that his choice given by God.

He also can't even acknowledge you have been attacked a hundred times in this thread.

That figure is probably well understandable estimated to

Anyhow it's his choice I guess
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Well, he has shamelessly attacked me multiple times, made lists of things he was falsely accusing me of, then insisted
I should be seeking peace with him, and falsely accused me all over again right in the middle of that. He's a nutter.
 
Magenta said:
Well, he has shamelessly attacked me multiple times, made lists of things he was falsely accusing me of, then insisted
I should be seeking peace with him, and falsely accused me all over again right in the middle of that. He's a nutter.
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some People who believe God gave people free will enslaved in sin generally are nutters by the looks of this thread m.

We call them utterly buttery as they don't know what side of the bread there buttered on.
 
HeIsHere said:
I was thinking on this because @Cameron143 used the argument "they fit themselves for destruction" but then I also realized that if they use this line of argumentation they are not being consistent with "god is sovereign/puppet master" argument.

It seems Calvinism lite looses coherence, it has to be all or nothing if one wants to be have a coherent system, I guess @Rufus keeps to the full system which is more coherent but yes it is completely un-biblical.

Others try to straddle a bit between biblical and unbiblical in order to win converts I guess.
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RF.
 
Jordon said:
some People who believe God gave people free will enslaved in sin generally are nutters by the looks of this thread m.

We call them utterly buttery as they don't know what side of the bread there buttered on.
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Well, still waiting for a verse articulating what he said: all are called. I see many are called...
 
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Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. You are chosen to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. My soul will exult in my God, for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness. Plus Isaiah 61 verse 10
 
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GWH said:
If God would hate anyone, you could be one.
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Not a very nice way of discussing doctrine... looks way more like a
demeaning statement, made by someone who says he doesn't do that.

There is a word for that also...
 
Magenta said:
Well, still waiting for a verse articulating what he said: all are called. I see many are called...
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Calls (Rev. 17:14) = Invites (Matt. 22:14) = Draws (John 12:32) = Leads (Romans 2:4) = Commands (Acts 17:30) = Wants (1Timothy 2:4)
All is in John 12:32, Romans 1:5; Many = All per Romans 5:12-19.
 
Magenta said:
Not a very nice way of discussing doctrine... looks way more like a
demeaning statement, made by someone who says he doesn't do that.

There is a word for that also...
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The truth hurts those who kick against the goad.
And I spoke this truth in love, demeaning no one.
Also, I apologize for unintentionally offending anyone,
inviting reproof and admitting that my practice is not perfect.
The word you are looking for is forgiveness.
 
GWH said:
Calls (Rev. 17:14) = Invites (Matt. 22:14) = Draws (John 12:32) = Leads (Romans 2:4) = Commands (Acts 17:30) = Wants (1Timothy 2:4)
All is in John 12:32, Romans 1:5; Many = All per Romans 5:12-19.
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None of those say all are called. Gosh. One does say what I told you. So much for basing your doctrine on clear statements.
 
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