Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[rogerg]

Why is faith even necessary? Can a person who realizes they have been saved discard faith and still be saved?

Because we are to worship Christ as Lord, God, and Savior. Also, God also uses our faith to accomplish the ends He desires.
For example:

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Jordon]

lol well you know the thought had crossed my mind too

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Because we are to worship Christ as Lord, God, and Savior. Also, God also uses our faith to accomplish the ends He desires.
For example:

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

But what happens if a saved person doesn't do any of that?

 

[rogerg]

But what happens if a saved person doesn't do any of that?

Not sure what you're asking?

 

[lrs68]

No, not "a measure of faith" as in a quantity but an ability TO measure faith.

Eph 4:7 KJV] 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

[Rom 12:3 KJV]

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

[Eph 4:13 KJV] 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

You are applying multiple things claiming they're the same thing when we know it's NOT.

Grace and Faith are not ever going to be the same thing.

So the ONLY VERSE you have mentioned with measure of Faith includes that GOD HAS GIVEN TO EVERY MAN.

If I was trying to push a LIE I would not use a Verse that proves you are lying.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Not sure what you're asking?

What happens if a person becomes saved and then decides to live like he wants without regard to what God wants?

 

[Jordon]

What happens if a person becomes saved and then decides to live like he wants without regard to what God wants?

so I'll ask the question again would you expect God to give you salvation without looking at your whole life first.

 

[Mem]

lol well you know the thought had crossed my mind too

Yes, I've noticed, several times.

 

[Jordon]

Yes, I've noticed, several times.

ummm have you noticed really, maybe you have, apprehension its's called friend, it's when you wonder if the person your talking to is worth fighting with. But I won't kill you, no I may hand you over to the father, or to the son, that about as far it goes with me.

It's a careful deliberation, obviously I can't hand you over, but do you talk with the disaplin of the father or love of Christ first.

Well I would need to know what you would do with hedgehogs that keep munching your lawn everyday and tearing big holes in it first

 

[rogerg]

What happens if a person becomes saved and then decides to live like he wants without regard to what God wants?

God places those He saves under great moral and ethical scrutiny. Should someone who is saved do things not pleasing to God
or not Christ glorifying, believe me, God will inflict upon them correction in ways they won't like. God knows precisely
the things we as individuals hate and will not hesitate to inflict them upon us and it will not end quickly. Should we not take His correction to heart, He will increase it in both duration and intensity until we have no desire to continue with it, ever again.
Believe me when I say I know because I've had first-hand experience. God goes like a heat-seeking missile directly to
that which we want to avoid most, and He knows it even better than, and before we do.

[Heb 12:6-11 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[cv5]

So salvation, then grace, then faith?

You are going to hear vague notions about "grace" and "Jesus did it all" when tough questions are on the offer.

Because? They do not have the foggiest notion of what they are talking about.

 

[rogerg]

@ChristRoseFromTheDead

And I should have added that God will also do likewise and even more so should we shirk our Christian responsibility to share the gospel. We cannot hide from God.

God places those He saves under great moral and ethical scrutiny. Should someone who is saved do things not pleasing to God
or not Christ glorifying, believe me, God will inflict upon them correction in ways they won't like. God knows precisely
the things we as individuals hate and will not hesitate to inflict them upon us and it will not end quickly. Should we not take His correction to heart, He will increase it in both duration and intensity until we have no desire to continue with it, ever again.
Believe me when I say I know because I've had first-hand experience. God goes like a heat-seeking missile directly to
that which we want to avoid most, and He knows it even better than, and before we do.

[Heb 12:6-11 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[Genez]

So at some indeterminate point in a person's life God saves a person without him being aware of it. Is that correct?

And then at some later point in time a person hears the gospel and realizes that they have already been saved. Correct?

I will give you an example of how they are possibly turning personal experience intro a doctrine that should not exist.

It was the Vietnam era. I was attending college. I had been living a life that was immoral and busy being a musician.
As a musician, I rarely needed to buy marijuana or whatever else was being circulated. It was wherever I went.

In other words? My life was messed up. And, I knew it.

Personal experience 101.

One day while attending college, I was walking to class. On the way to the classroom, I saw a clean cut young man setting up a display in the lobby. I walked over and wondered what he was doing. I asked him something like, "what's this?"

He looked up at me and took something from what he was organizing on his display.
I took it, and walked away.
It was a tract. I read it while walking to my next class.
Now, I was Jewish. Yet, I always had a love for what I had seen about Jesus.
I read it through, and it seemed a bit legalistic to me, but I knew one thing about myself.
I knew my life was too messed up to be helped by turning fully to Judaism.

Thinking to myself, I thought....
My life is so messed up. What am I going to do?
Stop eating bacon? (kosher law)
I said the heck with it, and said the sinners prayer written in that tract.

Though nothing of it. Went to next class.

During the next few weeks I quit the band. Quit drugs.. and cut my hair... because I thought I simply wanted to.

That was in September or October sometime, for school had just begun for that year.

Then on Thanksgiving night in November, ..
I went to bed.
Had a powerful dream/vision that I knew was from a mind greater than my own.

I did not know that I had gotten saved at that point.
But I had.
All one has to do is to believe in Jesus.
That is all.

Then later on? One might thing God regenerated him before he got saved (when he conciously became aware of salvation).

Happens all the time. We do not realize we are getting saved when the initial point of belief took place!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I will give you an example of how they are possibly turning personal experience intro a doctrine that should not exist.

It was the Vietnam era. I was attending college. I had been living a life that was immoral and busy being a musician.
As a musician, I rarely needed to buy marijuana or whatever else was being circulated. It was wherever I went.

In other words? My life was messed up. And, I knew it.

Personal experience 101.

One day while attending college, I was walking to class. On the way to the classroom, I saw a clean cut young man setting up a display in the lobby. I walked over and wondered what he was doing. I asked him something like, "what's this?"

He looked up at me and took something from what he was organizing on his display.
I took it, and walked away.
It was a tract. I read it while walking to my next class.
Now, I was Jewish. Yet, I always had a love for what I had seen about Jesus.
I read it through, and it seemed a bit legalistic to me, but I knew one thing about myself.
I knew my life was too messed up to be helped by turning fully to Judaism.

Thinking to myself, I thought....
My life is so messed up. What am I going to do?
Stop eating bacon? (kosher law)
I said the heck with it, and said the sinners prayer written in that tract.

Though nothing of it. Went to next class.

During the next few weeks I quit the band. Quit drugs.. and cut my hair... because I thought I simply wanted to.

That was in September or October sometime, for school had just begun for that year.

Then on Thanksgiving night in November, ..
I went to bed.
Had a powerful dream/vision that I knew was from a mind greater than my own.

I did not know that I had gotten saved at that point.
But I had.
All one has to do is to believe in Jesus.
That is all.

Then later on? One might thing God regenerated him before he got saved (when he conciously became aware of salvation).

Happens all the time. We do not realize we are getting saved when the initial point of belief took place!

Interesting experience. Glad God got through

 

[Jordon]

Yes, I've noticed, several times.

See the thing is when it comes to hedgehogs there created with all these pricks as a self defense there known as porcupines.

They move so slowly as well, so there very easy to catch, but you will get a prick or two. But what do you do once you've catched one, because with all those pricks they have for self defense they must be really important to God, could you think why,.but what you do with one once you catched one,.as they could be looking food to feed there babies, when they dig through your lawn there unearthing worms like the blackbirds do of a morning.

Taking the hedgehogs to the woods is a bit unfair on the baby.

So what do you do.

Well did you know it just so happens that hedgehogs love cat biscuits, and the best part is one box of cat biscuits from the local store can cost as little as 70 penny's, and it will last 10 hedgehogs a whole week.

 

[posthuman]

knowing Judas "would not" ... is that the same as "could not"?
.

can true prophecy fail?

John 6:64​

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.​

what does eternal God mean when He says "from the beginning"

 

[Jordon]

Interesting experience. Glad God got through

it's not his personal experience he's sharing somebody else personal experience. He said I will give you an example. See that's what you would say if it was your own personal experience.

But because somebody is sharing a personal experience, the first thing you could do is let emotions favour your decision.

So basically he will soon have you on board the free willers side, by appealing to your emotions.

Its what the Armenian apostolic church are doing, there preaching free will to appeal to human emotions, where many people end going to them. This church is growing in numbers and so is there projection of false idols that comes with there free will speeches. And that church is responsible for plaguing people and the word of God with isms, and destroying grace to.

 

[Rufus]

I'm not interested in proving anything to hardheads. If you can't hear what's plainly written, you won't hear it from me either.

Of course, you're not interested. You have sold your soul to the devil's lie.

And besides, the sheep metaphor used for believers also militates violently against your unsubstantiated theory. Sheep don't shepherd themselves since they are dimwitted, docile, slow-footed prey for a large number of carnivores. This is why Jesus is THE Good Shepherd and has also appointed undershepherds to care for, guide, nurture and protect His flock.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Of course, you're not interested. You have sold your soul to the devil's lie.

And what is the devil's lie you are referring to?

 

[Rufus]

1 Corinthians 1:25?

Paul spoke of the weakness of God.

The text talks about the "foolishness of God". So...if Paul wasn't using rhetorical hyperbole to make a point of comparison between God and sinners, then God is a sinner. For engagement with folly is sin itself! It's little wonder that you're a heretical Pelagian. The version of your god is weak and foolish. And with this I truly concur 100%.