Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[rogerg]

How can one die if they were never alive in the first place? Only Adam and Eve actually died, the rest of us never had a spirit for it to return to God. Ecc.12:7

Were never made spiritually alive. Those who die unsaved, they will also die the second death. Everyone who comes into this world comes into it spiritually dead until and unless saved due to sin within us all. See Luke 16:23 - 24 below

No? What sort of body do you think the unbeliever will be raised with? He is not getting a nice spiritual body like the believer it will be the same body of flesh he had in this life and that body most definitely burns.

Yes, same person: same body, soul and spirit in fire that is never quench from its burning. The "he", the "my", the "I am" and in that he is referring to himself, testifies to the fact that it is he in hell in his fulness.

[Luk 16:23-24 KJV]
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

That verse is not referring to a literal spirit but a mindset, a way of thinking that's why it refers to "knowing" (bolded). The human spirit is born of God Jn.3:6 The Lord does not give of Himself in such an intimate manner to unbelievers.

No, it isn't. Read the verses again. Do you see the word "received"?

 

[studier]

Thanks Dr Freud. You've got me pegged. And all without spiritual discernment.

1Cor2, which you don't understand correctly, but its use fits your mold, used as a shield. I prefer 1Cor4:3-4. There's less to be discussed and no self-validation.

No charge.

 

[sawdust]

Right. I believe God's grace doesn't just withhold the flesh but changes a man's nature altogether as well as indwells him.

Yes, that it does, after he believes. As for changing his nature? Depends what you mean by nature. He is still human just a new species of humanity. Nothing wrong with being human, Christ was fully human. The corruption is in the flesh, our humanity is in our soul made in the image and likeness of God.

 

[rogerg]

Of course He was. Its patently obvious to every advanced Bible student.
As for the duffers and fluffers and bluffers, they will likely never matriculate to that stage, and will be stuck with endlessly repeating dogmatic Bible tweet mantras.

Oh well, don't blame me for trying.

If they are still Bible students, then maybe it's not too late for them to get a refund on their money - and you too.

 

[lrs68]

That doesn't mean you can accept the spiritual the bible says this 1 Corinthians 2:14, which states that "the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned

Now where in scripture does it say that the natural man can accept or understand the spiritual? by all means show me the verse but you and I both know you cannot because there is no such verse so all your saying is not biblical

Actually what I have been saying is how can someone reject God without God first drawing them to God? This is a spiritual act.

 

[Cameron143]

1Cor2, which you don't understand correctly, but its use fits your mold, used as a shield. I prefer 1Cor4:3-4. There's less to be discussed and no self-validation.

No charge.

Really. So you judge others, but you yourself are only judged of God. I wasn't aware that verse was only written for you.

 

[rogerg]

Yes He did which is why all men are raised from the dead.

All are raised but only those saved are raised unto eternal life with Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, that it does, after he believes. As for changing his nature? Depends what you mean by nature. He is still human just a new species of humanity. Nothing wrong with being human, Christ was fully human. The corruption is in the flesh, our humanity is in our soul made in the image and likeness of God.

Made a partaker of the divine nature. That's a change.
And I believe those changes are necessary for salvation, for the reasons previously stated.

 

[Magenta]

All are raised but only those saved are raised unto eternal life with Christ.

Daniel 12 v 2 Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Blain]

Actually what I have been saying is how can someone reject God without God first drawing them to God? This is a spiritual act.

Ok let's say it is a spiritual act and that this drawing you speak of is about him drawing all men only to be rejected what does that have to do with anything? the verse itself says they cannot understand so what is the point your trying to mek like did I miss something?

 

[Magenta]

I prefer 1Cor4:3-4. There's less to be discussed and no self-validation.

It certainly speaks to the fact of your minimal self-awareness.

 

[DeanM]

Yup, and that would actually be better than believing you can be saved by your works which is the only other alternative.
It's interesting to see though that you disagree with clear scripture

Where did you come up with me believing in a works salvation? Are you one of the chosen? How do you know? Maybe you are, maybe you arnt.

 

[rogerg]

Of course He was. Its patently obvious to every advanced Bible student.
As for the duffers and fluffers and bluffers, they will likely never matriculate to that stage, and will be stuck with endlessly repeating dogmatic Bible tweet mantras.

Oh well, don't blame me for trying.

Why would I blame you? I don't blame people for their ignorance but try to edify them.
I will say, however that with you, it ain't easy
But believe it or not, we can thrive quite nicely spiritually without your approval.

 

[sawdust]

Were never made spiritually alive. Those who die unsaved, they will also die the second death.

Yes which is why the second death cannot be spiritual as they were never born spiritually to begin with. You do terrible maths. I give you nothing then give you nothing and somehow you add that up to two?

I prefer my maths. I give you physical life then you die, then I raise you from the dead and throw you bodily into the fire and you die again? Equals two deaths, two physical deaths.

No, it isn't. Read the verses again. Do you see the word "received"?

Your verse referred to being given the Holy Spirit not a human spirit. Read the preceding verses. They clearly reference the Holy Spirit as being the subject of Paul's narrative. You should never read a single verse in isolation and assume it means what you think.

 

[rogerg]

Where did you come up with me believing in a works salvation? Are you one of the chosen? How do you know? Maybe you are, maybe you arnt.

If you reject the doctrine that only those the Father sends to Jesus that they alone become saved, then all that is left is the
doctrine of works for salvation - those being the only two possible alternatives. The alternative of works, of course, can only fail,
which is confirmed by your statement of going to the bar and shooting pool - meaning that you rejected salvation solely by grace
through Jesus Christ.

 

[sawdust]

Eternal life would be the reward of keeping the covenant.

Where was Adam promised eternal life? I asked you to show us the promises, not simply give us your opinion.

 

[sawdust]

I do not ignore grace. I believe it entails far more than you do.

Even though I said after one believes it does all you said it does regarding changing a man but still you think you know more than I?

 

[rogerg]

Yes which is why the second death cannot be spiritual as they were never born spiritually to begin with. You do terrible maths. I give you nothing then give you nothing and somehow you add that up to two?

I prefer my maths. I give you physical life then you die, then I raise you from the dead and throw you bodily into the fire and you die again? Equals two deaths, two physical deaths.



Your verse referred to being given the Holy Spirit not a human spirit. Read the preceding verses. They clearly reference the Holy Spirit as being the subject of Paul's narrative. You should never read a single verse in isolation and assume it means what you think.

Okay, not to be rude, but this is becoming a never-ending discussion, and I've grown weary of it for both of our sakes

 

[Magenta]

Are you one of the chosen? How do you know? Maybe you are, maybe you arnt.

Scripture says we can know we have eternal life (are saved). If you don't know that, what are you doing here? Guessing?