Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

What church do you go to magenta,

May I ask are there actually any people you know who call themselves Calvinists,

And if so what's your view on people refering to themselves as Calvinists.

She actually attends the similar Church that I do.

 

[lrs68]

well that could be in the bases of a warning it may not mean you can determine your own path

Then God is a liar if He tells us to choose but doesn't allow it.

 

[Jordon]

I said God did that the ancient Hebrew Jew.

not sure what you mean.

Do you mean God predestined only that group only ?

 

[lrs68]

not sure what you mean.

Do you mean God predestined only that group only ?

Yes, it says that in the Old Testament several places.

 

[Jordon]

Yes, it says that in the Old Testament several places.

ah so it was only the Hebrews first.

So how about any other group after that group that aren't Hebrew

 

[Rufus]

Typical bafflegab pseudo-intellectual determinist response. Totally worthless and pointless, proving nor denying nothing.

The fact is that YOU say that NO determinist (or any person born into the world) is able or willing to.....repent. Or believe.
Therefore "God" did it for you. The repenting. And believing. Somehow.

And YOU say that in order for "God" to stand in for you and repent and believe for you (by sheer force and domination of will), you must FIRST OF ALL be "elected" by winning this "pre-birth sovereign lottery" that you definitely said that you agree to as being a valid precept of your belief system.

Which means that YOU did not do what the Bible says is necessary to be saved.

You, and the rest of your crew has made all of this crystal clear innumerable times.

Have you ever read the terms to the unilateral New Covenant? The "somehow" is easily explained but impossible to understand: Salvation is a supernatural act of God. You very obviously view salvation as merely a natural act of man's efficacious will.

 

[Jordon]

Then God is a liar if He tells us to choose but doesn't allow it.

well not necessarily no if I said to you can chose to put your hand in fire if you want.

Or you can choose not to,

Could that be a warning that you have to believe in

 

[lrs68]

ah so it was only the Hebrews first.

So how about any other group after that group that aren't Hebrew

It was only them because Paul explains He took those people and sanctified them in Romans 8:29-30.

 

[lrs68]

well not necessarily no if I said to you can chose to put your hand in fire if you want.

Or you can choose not to,

Could that be a warning that you have to believe in

Choose means it can be done.

 

[cv5]

Further, though the natural man can still employ his faculties, he can't employ them spiritually.

This statement nothing more than a determinist fantasy wrought in your vain imagination, diabolically defiant of the intended Biblical message.

[Luk 15:7, 10 KJV]
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. ...

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

[Luk 15:18, 21, 24, 32 KJV]
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, ...

[Luk 15:20 KJV] 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. ...

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. ...

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

 

[Rufus]

This is the game they play, oh we do not deny volition, you can choose how to fix your coffee, they doctrine simultaneously over complicates and simplifies that is the game of the system.

A person can be in jail and realize they are in jail and trust in/have faith in the words of the Judge who states He has the power to open the gates to the cell to set the person free.


The system needs to be denounced. Until stealth Calvinism Christian was but in motion, mainline and Baptist denominations were not infected with this anti-gospel.

The fatal flaw to your analogy is that the jail that the person is in is external to that person. But...the "captives" or "prisoners" talked about constantly in scripture are imprisoned by their nature from within themselves! We mere mortals can neither run from ourselves or change our immutable nature.

 

[Jordon]

It was only them because Paul explains He took those people and sanctified them in Romans 8:29-30.

ah ok well I'll take that to that God as I find that hard to believe but no matter.

It doesn't seem. right that one fallen group should be given preferential treatment before aother and even get thee salvation before the end of there walk on earth.

It would make more sense that God looked at there entire life first before they where born

 

[Rufus]

One of the most humbling things the Lord brought me through (several times) was to show me, to my face, how correct I had been assuming I was about something (I would have easily had many others agreeing with what I assumed). To then find out, it was not what the Word of God teaches. I felt totally stupid. It is a frightening place to be. Makes you keep your mouth shut until more knowledge and understanding can be gained. You end up standing alone before God.

Human nature, as we find it to be, has an affinity for human bonding concepts. Thoughts to make one feel one with others in a group.
TULIP has its followers. The ones sold on it are unwilling to think otherwise, because they assume that since others agree, that those who disagree with them simply can not grasp what it means, but they can. It produces a camaraderie they will desire to protect and find ways to do so.

In contrast... When the Word of God, can be given with God-given accuracy, over time, will make you to be standing alone.
Such thinking makes the herd seeking minds feel unsafe and uncomfortable. That is when God must become your everything
as one becomes pre-occupied with sound doctrine. God does provide such teaching. He would not be God if He did not.

The herd is being "herded up" into following non reality.
Thinking they are right. It's Satan's genius working.
Insulting for some to face. But, it is absolutely reality.

When others do get though the herd mentality?
Each one will all be standing alone before God, yet finding themselves together as a group. Alone.

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads ​

to destruction, and many enter through it. But strait is the gate and narrow the road​

that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14​

That speaks not about salvation being found by only a few. It speaks of many being saved.
But, only a few out of the many will find themselves chosen by God to be qualified to serve with the Lord over His kingdom!

Many are called (saved) but few are chosen (chosen by God to serve with Him). ​

​

That reality is being worked out now in time, with our conflicts we all find ourselves in....

The chosen solutions that we choose to accept will make us to become what we are to be in eternity.
Our chosen solutions? They will be proven BY FIRE to be either wood, hay and stubble. Or, gold, silver,
and precious stones. (1 Cor 3:11-15)

grace and peace .............

So, you FWers are not herding animals, heh? You're true blue independent freethinkers, are you?

 

[Jordon]

Choose means it can be done.

most of the bibe is private personal message,

So there you where walking the the wrong path and the lord said you can choose to to carry on in that direction if you want but I wouldnt recommend it

 

[Cameron143]

This statement nothing more than a determinist fantasy wrought in your vain imagination, diabolically defiant of the intended Biblical message.

[Luk 15:7, 10 KJV]
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. ...

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

[Luk 15:18, 21, 24, 32 KJV]
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, ...

[Luk 15:20 KJV] 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. ...

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. ...

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Actually, it's simply a statement of fact. Is there ever activity before life?

 

[lrs68]

ah ok well I'll take that to that God as I find that hard to believe but no matter.

It doesn't seem. right that one fallen group should be given preferential treatment before aother and even get thee salvation before the end of there walk on earth.

It would make more sense that God looked at there entire life first before they where born

That is because up to the time Paul wrote that Letter only the ancient and current Jews were the foreknown and chosen of God.

 

[lrs68]

most of the bibe is private personal message,

So there you where walking the the wrong path and the lord said you can choose to to carry on in that direction if you want but I wouldnt recommend it

Even in your post shows I have the ability to choose a different path if I want to.

 

[cv5]

Have you ever read the terms to the unilateral New Covenant? The "somehow" is easily explained but impossible to understand: Salvation is a supernatural act of God. You very obviously view salvation as merely a natural act of man's efficacious will.

God supernaturally made it impossible for you to repent?

Tell it to the Judge. And good luck at your trial.

 

[Jordon]

That is because up to the time Paul wrote that only the ancient and current Jews were the foreknowledge and chosen of God.

ah ok well I was believing that's what you meant last week, that's why I never continued in the discussion.

End of situation I think

 

[Rufus]

Good post. @Cameron143 question simply assumes a premise that negates the reality of a physically alive human being having an inner life that includes faculties put there by his Creator and used by His Creator to bring him back to Him.

The premise is a natural one for the misunderstanding of those with the psuchikos corpse theory.

Redefinition and false premises over and over again.

But those faculties are corrupt, evil and wicked. There's no spiritual soundness in the heart of man wherein those faculties reside (cf. Isa 1 someday). What God gave to our first parents in the very beginning is totally different from what man has subsequently become after the Fall. You're only looking at the "before" and not the "after"!