I know the doctrine likes to split and separate, to make it all work temporal and eternal.
An internal work of the Holy Spirit (regeneration) cannot precede being justified.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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I know the doctrine likes to split and separate, to make it all work temporal and eternal.
An internal work of the Holy Spirit (regeneration) cannot precede being justified.
One of the most humbling things the Lord brought me through (several times) was to show me, to my face, how correct I had been assuming I was about something (I would have easily had many others agreeing with what I assumed). To then find out, it was not what the Word of God teaches. I felt totally stupid. It is a frightening place to be. Makes you keep your mouth shut until more knowledge and understanding can be gained. You end up standing alone before God.
Human nature, as we find it to be, has an affinity for human bonding concepts. Thoughts to make one feel one with others in a group.
TULIP has its followers. The ones sold on it are unwilling to think otherwise, because they assume that since others agree, that those who disagree with them simply can not grasp what it means, but they can. It produces a camaraderie they will desire to protect and find ways to do so.
In contrast... When the Word of God, can be given with God-given accuracy, over time, will make you to be standing alone.
Such thinking makes the herd seeking minds feel unsafe and uncomfortable. That is when God must become your everything
as one becomes pre-occupied with sound doctrine. God does provide such teaching. He would not be God if He did not.
The herd is being "herded up" into following non reality.
Thinking they are right. It's Satan's genius working.
Insulting for some to face. But, it is absolutely reality.
When others do get though the herd mentality?
Each one will all be standing alone before God, yet finding themselves together as a group. Alone.
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads
to destruction, and many enter through it. But strait is the gate and narrow the road
that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14
That speaks not about salvation being found by only a few. It speaks of many being saved.
But, only a few out of the many will find themselves chosen by God to be qualified to serve with the Lord over His kingdom!
Many are called (saved) but few are chosen (chosen by God to serve with Him).
That reality is being worked out now in time, with our conflicts we all find ourselves in....The chosen solutions that we choose to accept will make us to become what we are to be in eternity.
Our chosen solutions? They will be proven BY FIRE to be either wood, hay and stubble. Or, gold, silver,
and precious stones. (1 Cor 3:11-15)
grace and peace .............
why is my statement sick sick sick sick sick sick sick ?
If Jordon had offered to pray for me two weeks ago, I would have asked him to pray for me.
.
As a Jew I would have known about God before most others or classified as Gentile would. But having a personal relationship with God is the difference. There's knowing about God and then there's being a Friend with God who is there with you 24\7\365.
Where is this in scripture that life cannot precede justification?
You don't answer my question because you know that life always precedes activity, whether it be physical life or spiritual.
A church that is truly growing in grace and knowledge will not remain stuck in the baby stage of the basics.
Yet, some do get stuck and refuse to grow. Making some doctrine their main talking point.
They will not grow spiritually in Christ to fully mature.
Yet, their sense of self-confidence over time will grow, and will form into a stubbornness that gives them a sense of being secure and stable in their group bonding.
So be it....
Grace and peace.
Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
Yet, according to FWers, even though the "mind of the flesh is hostile to God"...and "those controlled by flesh cannot please God", unregenerate sinners (i.e. sinners w/o the Spirit) can come to faith and repentance and easily please God by exercising their own "freewill" that is controlled by the flesh.
Which is your way of saying that what you are saying isn't in scripture. And I've given you the proof. You can't have activity preceding life.
Not every Church resembles this scenario.
We teach from the sacred Pulpit and then offer classes should those within the congregation need more clarification and understanding.
Yes, there is also the matter of what to eat for lunch and every other mundane choice people make that have zero
to do with salvation yet prove volition... but of course you miss that and wish to represent because you are dishonest.
That is not proof, that is making a deduction from false premise of inability.
If the plan of salvation is regeneration prior to faith then it should be clearly spelled out in scripture, it is not.
Where is this clearly laid out doctrine of free will? Oh, right, it is nowhere found in
Scripture and is actually spoken against in a number of ways in a number of places.
A great number of ways and places, most all of which FWers deny and contradict or rewrite.
The issue for those who have come to know this, is that this reality is quickly identifiable when walking into an unknown congregation and listening for a bit. Or likely even from knowing the system one is walking into.
Flesh that serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death.Yet, according to FWers, even though the "mind of the flesh is hostile to God"...and "those controlled
by flesh cannot please God", unregenerate sinners (i.e. sinners w/o the Spirit) can come to faith and r
epentance and easily please God by exercising their own "freewill" that is controlled by the flesh.
Yep. Their rotten tree brings forth good fruit in their self-exalting theology.
It does not seem to bother them that it directly contradicts the fact that Jesus said such was not possible.
But they are quite used to directly contradicting what Jesus, and Scripture, explicitly articulate.
Quite sad, actually... it all plays into their Pelagian heresy and idolization of man's ability.
Good post. @Cameron143 question simply assumes a premise that negates the reality of a physically alive human being having an inner life that includes faculties put there by his Creator and used by His Creator to bring him back to Him.
The premise is a natural one for the misunderstanding of those with the psuchikos corpse theory.
Redefinition and false premises over and over again.
So you are saying activity precedes life? And you believe that life before activity is a false premise?
This principle is taught in scripture in John 3. This is the essence of why one MUST be born again.
Perhaps give us an exhaustive list since examples fly over your head.
Don't forget the free part. You know. Your idol of free will must include free.
@Jordon,
I am part of a type of Church that if we discussed issues like Calvin and Arminius and made their discussion part of the Doctrine the majority of people would say Heretics and leave the Church because we're only ever concerned about what Jesus said, not a couple of buffoons who are opinionated.
I am part of a type of Church that if we discussed issues like Calvin and Arminius and made their discussion part of the Doctrine the majority of people would say Heretics and leave the Church because we're only ever concerned about what Jesus said, not a couple of buffoons who are opinionated.