Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

oops yep sorry,

That would of been my Aspasia again, I often miss words out when I'm typing, it's permanent to, due to a massive brain injury, I even have speech issues at times, it's not a condition where by my intelligence is effected tho,

But yes Romans 10.17.

You know talking to people who openly state they have a mob against you really isn't wise to keep on talking to that to that person cam

I'm not really talking to them. I'm actually talking to those who will hear the truth and be edified.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Much of what you give as explanation isn't supported by scripture, but there remains a teachable moment here. If you are going to treat the word world as the entirety of humanity, you need to show that all humanity experiences what you claim. The fact is, you cannot provide evidence that the Spirit has convicted every person since the cross of sin. You would also need to show that they were convicted of righteousness. You cannot do this. I can show you from this site people who have not. I can also show you from history that large swaths of humanity never heard the gospel and where there is no apparent evidence God being present. So, just perhaps, world in the verses you shared may not incorporate the whole of humanity. Or, it may just mean where the Spirit is active, one finds the Spirit ministering in these ways. One place you always find the Spirit ministering in these ways is where one finds people being saved.

... or it may just mean exactly what it says with no need to redefine words because it convicts the reader.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit began on Day of Pentecost and continues to this day ... the ministry of the Holy Spirit is much more successful than you give credit.

iow ... I do not have to show you all the things you require before you will believe that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of reproving/convicting the world ... maybe, just maybe, the ministry of the Holy Spirit is working in your heart at this very moment ... what are you going to do about that, Cameron143?
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Being one flesh with his wife would never require Adam to sin.

Adam did what he did ... his wife gave him to eat and he ate ... ended up being one flesh with her ... reminds me of the record concerning Abraham/Sarah ... where God gave Abraham a word to believe concerning a son and Sarah talked Abraham into having a child with Hagar.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why didn't Adam step into the gap between Eve and God, as Moses did between Israel and God, and offer to pay her sin debt by pleading with God to take his life on her behalf?

I've pondered what would have happened if Adam would have gone to God rather than eat? Pilgrimshope and I briefly discussed that.

I did not know Adam had a mother and father. When did they appear, and in which book, chapter and verse can they be found?

God wasn't Adam's Father? too bad you weren't around when Luke wrote the genealogy of the Lord Jesus Christ ...

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

also, have you considered children who have a single parent? they don't leave "father and mother" ... some leave father ... some leave mother ... but the fact is, what was written in Gen 2:24 is also written in Eph 5:31 ... so still instruction in our day and time.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Thanks, but save your time and effort, I'll go with the existing translations which have withstood scrutiny for years, over the expertise of amateur Greek/Hebrew grammar experts.

Not really doing this for you, roger. I don't expect you to care nor do I think you'll be able to interact if I get into the Greek or point to writings that do.

hilarious ... but so so sad ... that rogerg considers Chrysostom an "amateur" of Greek grammar ...

Chrysostom was highly fluent in Greek. He was a native Greek speaker from Antioch​

​

The language of his work: His surviving work, including hundreds of homilies and letters, was written entirely in Greek and is admired for its elegant and fluent style​

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I would like to know when they think I was told to go and make disciples.

we are instructed to preach the gospel ... those who believe the gospel are "disciples" ... later known as "Christians"
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[reneweddaybyday]

I wasn't interpreting the parable; I was only make some parallels between it and God's salvation. I mean after all...the Good Samaritan did save the half-dead guy, right?

yeah ... you guys "make some parallels" and "harmonize" and never learn the lesson the Author of Scripture intended when He wrote Scripture.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

having bidden adieu to the true meaning of a passage

Love the language. So many here have bidden adieu to the true meaning of passages. And some don't care...

oh they call it "make some parallels" and "harmonize" don'tchyaknow? ... and all the while never learn what God wants learned from His Holy Word ... smh

reminds me of what Paul wrote concerning his brethren of Israel ...

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
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[reneweddaybyday]

there is not one positive spiritual thing said about Adam anywhere in the bible.

ever read Luke 3:38?

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

let's get this straight ... you consider Adam the spawn of satan ... so God has spawn of satan in the genealogy of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ? ... yeah, sure.

you need to get rid of your "parallels" and quit teaching them to others.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So it was never an inner faith like the faith that comes with ,the day you received a new seed of new light,

The kind of faith that doesn't look for reward but loves God.

OC believers didn't love God ??? ... ever read Hebrews 11 ?

But they also exercised it after being giving instruction.

Not to mention there parents telling them if God instructs you to do something do it .

same holds true today ... God's written Word is instruction being given ... and those OC parents who told their kids "if God instructs you to do something do it" ... spot on ... have you ever read Eph 6:4 ?

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
.

 

[Cameron143]

... or it may just mean exactly what it says with no need to redefine words because it convicts the reader.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit began on Day of Pentecost and continues to this day ... the ministry of the Holy Spirit is much more successful than you give credit.

iow ... I do not have to show you all the things you require before you will believe that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of reproving/convicting the world ... maybe, just maybe, the ministry of the Holy Spirit is working in your heart at this very moment ... what are you going to do about that, Cameron143?
.

The Spirit is always in my life. It is God at work in me, willing and doing of His good pleasure. And the Spirit has been in the world since at least Genesis 1:2. So I always welcome the work of the Spirit, whether in me or in others.

 

[Cameron143]

Adam did what he did ... his wife gave him to eat and he ate ... ended up being one flesh with her ... reminds me of the record concerning Abraham/Sarah ... where God gave Abraham a word to believe concerning a son and Sarah talked Abraham into having a child with Hagar.
.

None of which has anything to do with our discussion. Adam didn't eat the fruit to become one flesh with his wife.

 

[cv5]

any faith people had in the old t was based more on obedience,

Or any kind of faith given to people of the old t was based on give and take

The kind of faith that doesn't look for reward but loves God.

Rubbish. David loved God truly and exorbitantly, writing music and song to express his love.

Bashing OT believers......is that where the determinists are at now?
Believing Adam has been the subject of ongoing severe baseless persecution for no good reason like a lynch mob victim.

Detestable.....

 

[cv5]

OC believers didn't love God ??? ... ever read Hebrews 11 ?
.

Now the argument of the day is how OT saints do not love God?
Truly, the determinists are spelunking to ever greater depths.

And then trot out flowery phrases extolling their OWN impeccable wisdom and righteousness.

[Mat 23:13 NKJV]
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in [yourselves], nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

[Mat 23:14 NKJV]
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

 

[cv5]

My message is the gospel. You are just another dishonest person who ignores what people say and misrepresent them. The phrase you employ has never come forth from my lips.

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5568419
"I do believe in election. Clearly taught in the Bible."

You preach what you believe? I think not.
In fact I doubt any determinists actually come out of the closet and preach what they SAY they actually believe.

And I would like to know: what determinist can PROVE that Paul peached the message noted in green below.
A message CONFIRMED to be an accurate assessment of the super-determinist belief system by @rogerg , yourself and others of your ilk.

-pre-selected/elected before birth? Check

-pre-selected/elected sovereignly by God with zero inputs from anybody? Check.

-this pre-selection/election totally uncontrolled as far as the human beings that are the winners and losers are concerned? Check.

 

[Cameron143]

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5568419
"I do believe in election. Clearly taught in the Bible."

You preach what you believe? I think not.
In fact I doubt any determinists actually come out of the closet and preach what they SAY they actually believe.

And I would like to know: what determinist can PROVE that Paul peached the message noted in green below.
A message CONFIRMED to be an accurate assessment of the super-determinist belief system by @rogerg , yourself and others of your ilk.

-pre-selected/elected before birth? Check

-pre-selected/elected sovereignly by God with zero inputs from anybody? Check.

-this pre-selection/election totally uncontrolled as far as the human beings that are the winners and losers are concerned? Check.

You don't like someone's answers so you change them.
Question still on the table: where does faith come from?

 

[Jordon]

I'm not really talking to them. I'm actually talking to those who will hear the truth and be edified.

. No worries cam I'll talk to you about them, I just don't see the point in responding indirectly to him anymore and his followers, who have become To confident in how they talk to people and there dismissiveness.

There argument seems to be because certain men showed some acts of love towards God or faith

They must have done that all by themselves, no mention of how they where trained to how they where commanded to how they where enabled.

No mention. Of the oracle

You just can't reason with people who are so dismissive.

 

[Jordon]

There also appling what certain acts from certain exceptions that certain individuals did, and applying that rule for all @Cameron.

Jesus Christ would no doubt have come through the line of David way sooner dating back to noah if the condition of the heart Was ready for all mankind to even listen to Jesus.

The hate mob jesus would have had to face would have been much greater had God not enabled so many hearts through generation after generation,.

Which was only mostly done through the lord punishing people In front of everyone for not listening.

Did they all get to go up the mountain to speak with God directly, nope.

Did they all get to in the Tabernacle and speak with God so closely, nope


Only the ones through his enabling grace when his oracle came upon there hearts, and they listened and acted with the right response and action did.

 

[lrs68]

The reformed would never take that stance. Bearing false witness isn't a good look.

You can only bear false witness if every Reformed Believer attempts to share the Gospel to strangers and the lost. And we know that isn't even remotely close to the case.

 

[rogerg]

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5568419
"I do believe in election. Clearly taught in the Bible."

You preach what you believe? I think not.
In fact I doubt any determinists actually come out of the closet and preach what they SAY they actually believe.

And I would like to know: what determinist can PROVE that Paul peached the message noted in green below.
A message CONFIRMED to be an accurate assessment of the super-determinist belief system by @rogerg , yourself and others of your ilk.

-pre-selected/elected before birth? Check

-pre-selected/elected sovereignly by God with zero inputs from anybody? Check.

-this pre-selection/election totally uncontrolled as far as the human beings that are the winners and losers are concerned? Check.

Here, this verse should answer all of your questions:

[1Ti 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope;

Now, what you need to do is to read the Bible, try to comprehend what the Saviour did/does, what it means that Christ is Saviour, and how did/does He fulfill that role. After you've gained correct understanding in that (if you do), come back and we can discuss further then.

BTW, don't tell me what I believe, especially since you do not understand the gospel well enough to be able to make that kind of comment.