Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Colossians 1 verse 13 ~ He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son.

 

[Genez]

Yes, while denying that nothing good lives in the flesh which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death.

The Spirit is required to receive and comprehend the spiritual things of God because the flesh rejects them, opposes them, cannot understand them devoid of the Spirit and is not going to agree when that person is incapable of obey or submitting to God.

According to Scripture, that is. According to those in the free will camp, the person Scripture says "cannot" they say, can.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

You keep forgetting?
You also have a soul.
We are not solely flesh.

The flesh is dangerously defective machinery that ruins souls. Unregenerate people keep hurting themselves when that machinery is allowed to function without restraint.

The saved who have become skilled in learning to walk in the Spirit are overcoming the flesh as they keep choosing to live for God
by growing in grace and doctrine.

For the maturing believer grace (in the form of the filling of the Spirit) controls the flesh, so that the soul can live freely for God.

 

[cv5]

Hmm... maybe I missed something because I was unaware they were speaking about a different God but even so no other God's had anything to do with Mary so what point were they making exactly?

Yes you missed something. It's called the search tool.

What I REFUTED, summarized, is the CALVINIST position is that the Holy Ghost DID NOT FIRST ASK FOR nor FIRST OF ALL NEED permission FROM MARY, nor did Mary need to GIVE CONSENT for the Holy Ghost to impregnate Mary.

@Magenta has CONFIRMED over and over and OVER again that INDEED, this is in fact what she believes. As did her compatriots.

For MY PART, I stridently and vociferous DISAGREED with their outrageous view, and then proved from Scripture that NO, God DID NOT "violate" Mary against her will in any way whatsoever.

In other words I SAY that no way that God is a "violator of virgins". No way, no how, never ever impossible.

But the Calvinists say, permission was NEVER issued by Mary for the immaculate conception, nor did God ask for or even need permission. THEY, the Calvinists say this.

Confirmed many times.

Now you know the truth. And this bizarre Calvinist view is unbiblical, outrageous and unacceptable IMO.

 

[Rufus]

Regeneration prior to belief/faith is not found in scripture.

It is "through" faith, salvation is the gift.
Faith is condition that God sets.
Why does god give a gift (regeneration) to someone who does not even have belief in Christ Jesus.
So ridiculous.

The system is flawed, you would be wise to depart from it as you insist you are not an adherent of it.

Of course it is! It's found in various ways in scripture -- through various processes that are taught in the Word: the new birth metaphor, the saints are called through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, through God drawing the elect to Jesus, and even through the New Covenant gift of the "Fear of the Lord", etc.

 

[Magenta]

Could you possibly write something more absurd and illogical than what I bolded above!? How can anyone know what evil is apart from knowing what good is!? Since we're free moral agents created in God's image, God has instilled innately into every man's heart the knowledge of good and evil. But what He hasn't instilled into every moral creature's heart is his efficacious grace to believe the gospel and to repent of sin.

And there is no good in man. Jesus said so. Only God is good. Man is evil.

The free willers largely reject what God has to say of man. He is not the bad guy the Bible makes him
out to be since they have remade him in their very own image and likeness, and they are legends in
their own minds, needing no help from God at all to come into the light even though the Bible says
the natural man refuses to as a lover of darkness and slave to sin opposed to the spiritual things of
God which he can neither receive nor comprehend while under the power and influence of the wicked
one, taken captive to do the will of the devil and blinded to the truth as is the rest of the world out of
which those who will believe are called. They prefer to mock and scoff at such ideas and condemn
those who affirm what Scripture very plainly states.

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18

 

[Rufus]

You keep forgetting?
You also have a soul.
We are not solely flesh.

The flesh is dangerously defective machinery that ruins souls. Unregenerate people keep hurting themselves when that machinery is allowed to function without restraint.

The saved who have become skilled in learning to walk in the Spirit are overcoming the flesh as they keep choosing to live for God
by growing in grace and doctrine.

For the maturing believer grace (in the form of the filling of the Spirit) controls the flesh, so that the soul can live freely for God.

Have you considered getting skinned alive? That would take care of the skin you hate so much that sadly you must wear.

 

[Genez]

Mary's permission was not asked. She was informed. cv5 claimed if that was so then God raped Mary.

It had nothing to do with anything else, aside from cv5 refusing to admit what Scripture plainly states.

He prefers to rewrite it, and blaspheme God, than admit he was wrong. Mary was not asked.

In Mary's day in Israel many women longed to be the one to give birth to the promised Messiah.

For they believed Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity​

Between you and the woman,​

And between your seed and her Seed;​

He shall bruise your head,​

And you shall bruise His heel.”​

God (knowing Mary's heart) did as he pleased.
Mary felt honored when she was told God chose her to be his chosen vessel.

The angel Gabriel initially greeted Mary with "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" indicating she had found grace in God's sight.

 

[Rufus]

Yikes, if that is the case then yeah that is blaspheme but I also would like to hear @cv5 point of view about this maybe they can clarify things because as it is this seems pretty straight forwards as blaspheme

Of course it is in the past and I would not holf anything against them for a mistake they made in the past but yeah it would appear that this was not talking about any other God

CV5 is the biggest fabricator of lies I have ever met on any "Christian" forum. He thinks nothing of making things up out of whole cloth to support his man-made theology.

 

[Genez]

Have you considered getting skinned alive? That would take care of the skin you hate so much that sadly you must wear.

What are you thinking?

The body is much more than skin.

Superficial minds stay on the surface.

 

[Blain]

Yes you missed something. It's called the search tool.

What I REFUTED, summarized, is the CALVINIST position is that the Holy Ghost DID NOT FIRST ASK FOR nor FIRST OF ALL NEED permission FROM MARY, nor did Mary need to GIVE CONSENT for the Holy Ghost to impregnate Mary.

@Magenta has CONFIRMED over and over and OVER again that INDEED, this is in fact what she believes. As did her compatriots.

For MY PART, I stridently and vociferous DISAGREED with their outrageous view, and then proved from Scripture that NO, God DID NOT "violate" Mary against her will in any way whatsoever.

In other words I SAY that no way that God is a "violator of virgins". No way, no how, never ever impossible.

But the Calvinists say, permission was NEVER issued by Mary for the immaculate conception, nor did God ask for or even need permission. THEY, the Calvinists say this.

Confirmed many times.

Now you know the truth. And this bizarre Calvinist view is unbiblical, outrageous and unacceptable IMO.

Ok this is what I was waiting for I figured their was a piece missing from the puzzle
Though technically she did not give consent she simply agreed with what was told to her and that is the key part it was told to her she was not offered a choice but she agreed with it because she was a servant of God.

So had she disagreed or objected then I assume he would have found another to use as he never forces his will on any of us

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes you missed something. It's called the search tool.

What I REFUTED, summarized, is the CALVINIST position is that the Holy Ghost DID NOT FIRST ASK FOR nor FIRST OF ALL NEED permission FROM MARY, nor did Mary need to GIVE CONSENT for the Holy Ghost to impregnate Mary.

@Magenta has CONFIRMED over and over and OVER again that INDEED, this is in fact what she believes. As did her compatriots.

For MY PART, I stridently and vociferous DISAGREED with their outrageous view, and then proved from Scripture that NO, God DID NOT "violate" Mary against her will in any way whatsoever.

In other words I SAY that no way that God is a "violator of virgins". No way, no how, never ever impossible.

But the Calvinists say, permission was NEVER issued by Mary for the immaculate conception, nor did God ask for or even need permission. THEY, the Calvinists say this.

Confirmed many times.

Now you know the truth. And this bizarre Calvinist view is unbiblical, outrageous and unacceptable IMO.

Everything has to be changed, even the character of God to fit their doctrine of determinism.

 

[Rufus]

In Mary's day in Israel many women longed to be the one to give birth to the promised Messiah.

For they believed Genesis 3:15.

And I will put enmity​

Between you and the woman,​

And between your seed and her Seed;​

He shall bruise your head,​

And you shall bruise His heel.”​

God (knowing Mary's heart) did as he pleased.
Mary felt honored when she was told God chose her to be his chosen vessel.

The angel Gabriel initially greeted Mary with "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" indicating she had found grace in God's sight.

I wonder if Mary was humble at the time God favored her?

 

[Genez]

CV5 is the biggest fabricator of lies I have ever met on any "Christian" forum. He thinks nothing of making things up out of whole cloth to support his man-made theology.

Rufus... why are you so antagonistic to truth of God's Word?

If you told me you are a witch who grew up in a Christian home, the way you speak would begin to make sense.

Really! You are that bad.

You do not even try to veil your hatred.

 

[Magenta]

The word translated "cannot" in Freewillease lingo = "can". Like the evil one, they turn everything
upside down. They call good evil, evil good, bitter sweet, sweet bitter, etc. WOE unto them!

I'm surprised our resident Gr. scholar has written an 11-page word salad to prove that
"cannot" doesn't really mean what the dictionary says or what the Gr. word means.

Perhaps it is forthcoming. They do not disappoint in their ability to strip words of their main and plain meanings so they better
fit what they were taught to think rather than what Scripture actually and very obviously and quite explicitly articulates, not
just once or twice, but in a plethora of verses across a number of books from various authors spanning the expanse of time.

 

[studier]

Did God determine your existence? Has God determined the number of years you will live? Has he determined the number of hairs on your head? Did he determine where you would be born? And who your parents would be, etc., etc., etc.? So, when you reject election (which you and your ilk pejoratively call "determinism", you are actually rejecting the biblical doctrine of election and the efficacy of God's grace AND...Natural Revelation, as well. For your info, Natural Revelation squares quite well with Special Revelation, as I have just shown.

But back to the question that you still haven't answered. Since you don't believe in the efficacy of God's saving grace, then you ultimately must believe in Libertinism because something or someone has to effectuate a sinner's choice to believe the gospel and repent of his sins. And you have admitted in the past that the ultimate difference between believers' and unbelievers' moral/spiritual choices are the volitions of those people themselves. Therefore, it is their will that must ultimately be efficacious -- which would make you a card-carrying believer in Libertinism.

Why do you find it so very hard to be honest and transparent?

And by the way, for your info....no one can choose to believe the gospel unless God has instilled into their wills (oops...my bad...meant to say HEARTS) the Fear of the Lord which He promised to do for only his covenant people.

As I've been pointing out, no fixed definitions providing for chaos and confusion to be inserted into discussion

Did God determine your existence? Has God determined the number of years you will live? Has he determined the number of hairs on your head? Did he determine where you would be born? And who your parents would be, etc., etc., etc.? So, when you reject election (which you and your ilk pejoratively call "determinism", you are actually rejecting the biblical doctrine of election and the efficacy of God's grace AND...Natural Revelation, as well. For your info, Natural Revelation squares quite well with Special Revelation, as I have just shown.

But back to the question that you still haven't answered. Since you don't believe in the efficacy of God's saving grace, then you ultimately must believe in Libertinism because something or someone has to effectuate a sinner's choice to believe the gospel and repent of his sins. And you have admitted in the past that the ultimate difference between believers' and unbelievers' moral/spiritual choices are the volitions of those people themselves. Therefore, it is their will that must ultimately be efficacious -- which would make you a card-carrying believer in Libertinism.

Why do you find it so very hard to be honest and transparent?

And by the way, for your info....no one can choose to believe the gospel unless God has instilled into their wills (oops...my bad...meant to say HEARTS) the Fear of the Lord which He promised to do for only his covenant people.

To repeat: I reject determinism in salvation because Scripture presents fallen people as able to choose Christ when the Gospel and Spirit confront them — and nothing you’ve written overturns that.
.

 

[Genez]

I wonder if Mary was humble at the time God favored her?

You are not human.
A.I. Programmed to be antagonistic and to oppose truth when it is revealed.

What made you so bitter?

 

[Kroogz]

Exactly and the points remains, Mary was not asked. How cv5 can make the despicable claims he does is beyond the pale.

You, Are making that claim not @cv5. How can you not see this?

I am not going to ask to impregnate you, I am informing you.......PRISON time.

 

[Rufus]

Ok this is what I was waiting for I figured their was a piece missing from the puzzle
Though technically she did not give consent she simply agreed with what was told to her and that is the key part it was told to her she was not offered a choice but she agreed with it because she was a servant of God.

So had she disagreed or objected then I assume he would have found another to use as he never forces his will on any of us

Which means God would have sent the angel for nothing. God didn't know Mary's heart?

And I know of no "Calvinist" who believes as CV5 has characterized about Mary.

Calvinist believe God is the Supreme Sovereign King of the universe who owns every square inch thereof , including all its contents, and he has every right to do whatever he wants with what he owns.

 

[cv5]

Ok this is what I was waiting for I figured their was a piece missing from the puzzle
Though technically she did not give consent she simply agreed with what was told to her and that is the key part it was told to her she was not offered a choice but she agreed with it because she was a servant of God.

So had she disagreed or objected then I assume he would have found another to use as he never forces his will on any of us

Yes she DID in fact give consent for pity sake. Check your Bible.

 

[Rufus]

You are not human.
A.I. Programmed to be antagonistic and to oppose truth when it is revealed.

What made you so bitter?

Legitimate question since the bible teaches that God gives his grace only to the humble. Don't you believe this truth?