Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[studier]

1. Solomon made it very clear that all mankind's whole duty is to fear God and keep his commandments (Eccl 12:13).

Beside the problems in your title and first argument, this first verse contains 2 commands to men; (1) to fear God and (2) to keep His commandments. These commands, which in effect are likely one command (fear God/obey God) are made to the volition of men.

So, you're telling us you're going to prove against men's free will, or volition, or ??, and begin by providing a verse that commands men's volition to choose or reject obedience to God.

 

[Magenta]

Beside the problems in your title and first argument, this first verse contains 2 commands to men; (1) to fear God and (2) to keep His commandments. These commands, which in effect are likely one command (fear God/obey God) are made to the volition of men.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Romans 8 v 7 = One of those verses free willers keep ignoring, or contradicting, and outright denying.

Romans 8 v 6-7 The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[appdroid]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

It's not free will that got us in trouble. It was not only knowing bad. But also good that got us in trouble. Our brains was never designed to decided that and short-circuits trying to work it out.

 

[Rufus]

Choose to "become" or choose to do albeit imperfectly according to God provided conscience and work of His law in hearts of men.

And yes, we do in effect and indirectly choose to become something different through belief in who God is and what God promises.

Vs. corpse man, no conscience, no sense.

Run your premise and conclusion through a fallacies check. Then go back and do the same with the statement I responded to and where you took it. So many errors...

Yeah...just like the Ethiopian can choose to change the color of his skin and the leopard can choose to change its spots. Take your own advice and run your tripe through a "fallacies check".

And man's conscience is just as corrupt as man's heart is since it's a faculty that finds its home in the heart. Why don't you expound for us how well the collective conscience of the Jews in both their northern and southern kingdoms historically worked out for them. I'd bet my last dollar that you probably think their collective conscience workout out as fabulously as well for them as it did for all the antedilluvians who perished in the flood, since there were 8 strong and mighty people who managed to save themselves.

 

[Rufus]

If ‘anything added to grace immediately cancels out grace,’ then belief—whether caused by grace (monergism) or freely responding to it (synergism)—would nullify grace.

The original statement was wrong.

Grace is the Primary Cause of Faith. Faith isn't something that is added but rather is a fulfillment of God's intended purpose.

 

[Rufus]

A straight-up truthful confession. 1 John 1:9.

Unless, you think Adam made the woman and put himself with her.

Eve also has a straight-up truthful confession.


Cain? Look at his confession.

@Rufus is showing us his heart and thoughts, not Adams.......Very revealing.

I see you're off your meds again...

 

[Rufus]

Yes. Yes, I am.

You wouldn't?

Only one of the serpent's seeds could make another one of his seeds a superhero.

I bet you don't even know that Adam's sin in scripture is characterized as transgression, whereas Eve's is not. You probably don't even know the difference between "sin" and "transgression", do you?

 

[kqr_anointed]

Give the Lord praise

 

[Rufus]

@Rufus thinks that Adam (a type of Christ, who was not deceived) is a horrible depraved evil to the bone loser.

And that God created him exactly that way.

So yea.....very revealing.

You just can't quit with your lies, can you? God HATES liars, especially, the malicious sort that lie to destroy people -- and no liars will be occupying the New Jerusalem. I have frequently said that all that God created (including Adam) was very good. You need to stop hanging out with the serpent and his seeds.... You're well on your way to becoming a serial liar...if you aren't one already.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As do I. You obviously put a lot of work into your post. I commend that. But it started from a false assumption/premise.



There is nothing in this verse about placing blame......Adam TOOK responsibility.

It is a truthful and honest 1 John 1:9.

What did Adam lie about in this verse?

You were told Adams motivation or you place your own motivations/thoughts/feelings upon Adam.

Lol I didnt say Adam lied I said he tried to blame eve for him eating she didn’t force him to eat God puts the responsibility on Adam saying “ because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree I commanded tbat you not eat of cirsed is the ground because of you .

adam blamed the woman god put with him for his actions no One forced him he chose to do it that’s where the blame was placed by God . Talk about beginning at a false premise I never said anything about adam lying . I was just saying that he blamed the woman god out with him when god asked him if he had eaten the fruit . Just factual lol that’s why I put the scripture beside it . He was avoiding personal responsability for taking the fruit and listening to her and eating it that wasn’t her fault what she did was her fault what he did was his fault . What we do … is our fault

 

[Rufus]

Absolutely YES, that is DEFINITELY what is happening.
Among many other absolutely stunning staggering things.

Adam And Eve... What really happened?

1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think

Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?

Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear

Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought

Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?

Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?

Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?

Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this

Isa 5:20-21
20 Woe unto them who call evil good , and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and intelligent in their own esteem!
Darby

 

[Pilgrimshope]

As do I. You obviously put a lot of work into your post. I commend that. But it started from a false assumption/premise.



There is nothing in this verse about placing blame......Adam TOOK responsibility.

It is a truthful and honest 1 John 1:9.

What did Adam lie about in this verse?

You were told Adams motivation or you place your own motivations/thoughts/feelings upon Adam.

“You were told Adams motivation or you place your own motivations/thoughts/feelings upon Adam.”

lol I’m not the one claiming he valiantly layed down his life for her like Jesus did somehow commiting suicide like Romeo and Juliet. Yeah he was tempted like anyone by the fruit when his wife spoke to him after she spoke to the serpent again orettt factual stuff given the scriptures I placed beside it. Pretty straight forward there’s nothing like Romeo and Juliet there though adam blamed the woman god put with him ,she blamed the serpent but he held each one accountable for what they themselves did .

 

[Kroogz]

Beside the problems in your title and first argument, this first verse contains 2 commands to men; (1) to fear God and (2) to keep His commandments. These commands, which in effect are likely one command (fear God/obey God) are made to the volition of men.

So, you're telling us you're going to prove against men's free will, or volition, or ??, and begin by providing a verse that commands men's volition to choose or reject obedience to God.

Not to mention the BOLD in the post you responded to.........WHOLE DUTY.

 

[Rufus]

Kroogz said:


As you know....... Adam(as our federal head) died for us also. If we would have remained in the garden and had to maintain perfection,he knew we would all fail. His trust in Christ and knowledge of Christ Gave us all an opportunity at salvation.

There is much more to this Adam fellow than meets the eye. He was a down right good ole boy. And set the stage for the Lord and Master......John the Baptist comes to mind.

You think the sons of men are hard on poor ol' Adam? Pick up a bible someday and see if you can find any explicit positive statements made about that son of the serpent! Adam is always contrasted with Christ, and you no doubt think that's a great biblical testimony for your superhero.

 

[Kroogz]

I see you're off your meds again...

Adam and Eve both had a no nonsense, truthful acknowledgement to God of their sin......1 John 1:9

Show us where they lied.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Adam became one flesh with his wife as instructed in Scripture:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Adam is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ ... Who left His Father and became flesh ...
.

Yes I agree adam is the first man of the ot given dominion on earth made in gods likeness and image . The difference is Adam when he was tempted sinned . Jesus when he was tempted never sinned . But yes Paul uses adams tile intbe ot as the first man to teach about jesus role in the nt as the first born of all creation.

 

[Kroogz]

I bet you don't even know that Adam's sin in scripture is characterized as transgression, whereas Eve's is not. You probably don't even know the difference between "sin" and "transgression", do you?

No. Show me.

 

[BillyBob]

There is much more to this Adam fellow than meets the eye. He was a down right good ole boy. And set the stage for the Lord and Master......John the Baptist comes to mind.

I guess all good ole boys hide when called by God.......

 

[Kroogz]

“You were told Adams motivation or you place your own motivations/thoughts/feelings upon Adam.”

lol I’m not the one claiming he valiantly layed down his life for her like Jesus did somehow commiting suicide like Romeo and Juliet. Yeah he was tempted like anyone by the fruit when his wife spoke to him after she spoke to the serpent again orettt factual stuff given the scriptures I placed beside it. Pretty straight forward there’s nothing like Romeo and Juliet there though adam blamed the woman god put with him ,she blamed the serpent but he held each one accountable for what they themselves did .

They both explained EXACTLY what happened. Neither put blame on anyone.

And this is an example of how we acknowledge/site our sins to God.

You are reading into these verses that they blamed. They were EXACT when acknowledging their sin to God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Adam and Eve both had a no nonsense, truthful acknowledgement to God of their sin......1 John 1:9

Show us where they lied.

You don’t have to lie about anything to blame someone else for your own actions .

God says to Adam “have you eaten of the tree I commanded you not eat of ?”


He doesn’t say “ yes lord I’ve eaten of the tree you commanded me not to eat of “ instead he avoids that account fa Lott and says “ the woman you gave me to be with me , she gave me the fruit and I ate it”

Did you eat of the tree ? Yes lord I ate of the tree

did you eat of the tree “ the woman lord that you put here with me she took some fruit and gave it to me and I ate it “

Both of those answers are true words but One of those answers shifts the blame for his personal actions to his wife that god had created and put with him .

did you eat the fruit I told you not to eat ? You put that woman here and she caused me to do it “