Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

But if you go against your conscience when it warns you, it has the effect
of hardening your heart towards God. Makes it harder to hear Him also.

God also hardens hearts.

Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Adam gets trashed and dumped on by virtually every believer in todays world. Feminism worked!

Adam knew exactly what he was doing, and it was......

John 5:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

And Adam KNEW this.....
1 John 3:16
We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers and sisters.

Adam was not deceived.

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

….And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6, 11-12, 17‬ ‭

You’re saying Adam valiantly laid his life down for his wife ?

 

[Kroogz]

You’re saying Adam valiantly laid his life down for his wife ?

Yes. Yes, I am.

You wouldn't?

 

[cv5]

Adam knew exactly what he was doing, and it was......
Adam was not deceived.

Absolutely correct sir!

 

[cv5]

You’re saying Adam valiantly laid his life down for his wife ?

Absolutely YES, that is DEFINITELY what is happening.
Among many other absolutely stunning staggering things.

Adam And Eve... What really happened?

1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think

Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?

Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear

Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought

Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?

Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?

Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?

Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this

 

[cv5]

right ??? ... and it's been point out to Rufus that he's got what he considered as the spawn of satan in the genealogy of the Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 3:38)

and he's got Eve, who was taken in by satan, on some sort of pedestal ... be careful if you try to nudge that ...
.

indeed.

 

[cv5]

I think we do have free will and the proof that we have a free will is in the fact that we also have a Conscience. We all know the difference between right and wrong. Because our conscience talks to us.

When we do something bad to someone we will regret it on some level because we knew it was wrong. I have done that quite a few times. OTOH though, when we do the right thing which helps someone then our conscience also talks to us and says, you did the right thing, and you have peace in your spirit about it!

That in every situation we must make a free will choice. Will we choose life or death? We have to walk through this life with love in our heart for them and help others as we would want them to help us if we needed it! That is life. That sort of life needs no government.

But if you go against your conscience when it warns you, it has the effect of hardening your heart towards God. Makes it harder to hear Him also.

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit. That means Holy Spirit talks directly to our spirit, but we don't get to listen, lol! But our spirit always knows what the right thing to do is in any situation.

Good call friend.

 

[Rufus]

The Fear of the Lord is a Unilateral New Covenant Promise Made to Only God's Covenant People​

This is a huge biblical theme, so all I can do to avoid writing a tome is to give a brief overview, which is not going to favor any of the absurdities that inhere in FWT. So, let's begin.

1. Solomon made it very clear that all mankind's whole duty is to fear God and keep his commandments (Eccl 12:13).
2. Paul, in his universal indictment of mankind, made it crystal clear that the sons of men naturally shun this duty (Rom 3:18).
3. This all-important disposition of heart is the beginning of godly wisdom and knowledge (Ps 111:10; Prov 1:7), respectively.
4. There's an inextricable connection between this godly gift and obedience that flows from it (Eccl 12:13; Ps 111:10; Prov 14:16; 16:6)
5. This indispensable and vitally important gift is a fountain of life to all who possess it (Prov 14:27; 19:23).
6. This gift efficaciously restrains evil (Ex 20:20).
7. Blessed are all saints who possess this gift and delight in keeping God's commandments (Ps 112:1).
8. This gift also induces hope in God's unfailing love within his saints (Ps 33:18).
9. God keeps (protects, preserves) his saints who fear Him (Ps 33:18; 121:3-8; Prov 2:8)
10. Humility is inextricably linked to this precious gift (Prov 15:33; 22:14).
11. Faith flows from this precious gift (Ex 14:31).
12. God's chosen ones are to always be zealous for this gift (Prov 23:17-18).
13. God's saints must serve Him faithfully by this gift of the Lord (2Chr 19:9).
14. True saving knowledge of the Lord can only come through this gift (Prov 2:5).
15. God loves those who fear Him (Ps 103:11, 17).
16. Salvation itself ensues by this precious, indispensable gift (Ps 145:19-20).
17. Those who do not fear the Lord will meet with an evil and bitter end (Jer 2:19).
18. This incredibly precious and gracious gift is never promised to the world at large to wit:

Jer 32:40-41
40 I will make with them [Israel] an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. 41 I will rejoice in doing them good, and I will plant them in this land in faithfulness, with all my heart and all my soul.
ESV

19. The Fear of the Lord is an efficacious gift that guarantees the faithfulness of God's people (Jer 32:40; Ex 20:20)
20. The Fear of the Lord is of such inestimable value that it's called Zion's treasure to wit:

Isa 33:6
6 And there shall be stability in thy times, abundance of salvation, wisdom, and knowledge: the fear of Jehovah is thy treasure.
ASV

I like the way the NIV renders the last part of the text. It reads, "the fear of the Lord is key to this treasure".

To summarize then, here are the key takeaways from all these passage:

1. The Fear of the Lord is strictly a New Covenant promise made only to God's chosen people.

2. The Fear of the Lord is a godly disposition which God sovereignly and efficaciously instills into his people's hearts.

3. This godly disposition of heart compels the heart to shun evil, turn away from evil, to pursue righteousness and goodness, to trust in the Lord, instills humility into the heart and is life itself to all who possess this precious gift.

Anticipated Objections

Since all unregenerate sinners are evil by nature and, therefore, naturally proud, no one comes into this world possessing this gift. So how can anyone be saved? Again...the one and only answer is Christ! Christ is All and is in all (Col 3:11)! God's elect have Christ to thank for this wonderful gift since He was the ultimate God-fearer!

Isa 11:2-3
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him —
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD —
3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD .
NIV

To be in a personal, intimate, loving, filial, covenant relationship with God is precisely to be in the Federal Head of all God's chosen people, who just also happens to be the very embodiment of God's Eternal New Covenant. God chose his elect based on the perfections and qualities of the Last Adam. When God views his elect from eternity He sees them all as delighting in or rejoicing in the fear of the Lord. And all of Christ's perfections -- his holiness, his righteousness, his goodness, etc. are all imputed to his Father's elect. God himself identifies his elect with his Beloved. He doesn't see any of their spiritual warts, callouses, impurities, corruptions, sins -- but only all the glorious perfections of Christ!

Since this gift is reserved strictly for God's chosen people, and is indispensable and necessary unto salvation, this irrefutably proves that God does not give his saving grace to the world at large. If the world received this gift, then all humanity would be saved since the promise of the gift is unilateral in nature and functionally efficacious.

Praise God! What a Actual Savior!

 

[Kroogz]

Absolutely YES, that is DEFINITELY what is happening.
Among many other absolutely stunning staggering things.

Adam And Eve... What really happened?

1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think

Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?

Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear

Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought

Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?

Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?

Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?

Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this

As you know....... Adam(as our federal head) died for us also. If we would have remained in the garden and had to maintain perfection,he knew we would all fail. His trust in Christ and knowledge of Christ Gave us all an opportunity at salvation.

There is much more to this Adam fellow than meets the eye. He was a down right good ole boy. And set the stage for the Lord and Master......John the Baptist comes to mind.

 

[cv5]

As you know....... Adam(as our federal head) died for us also. If we would have remained in the garden and had to maintain perfection,he knew we would all fail. His trust in Christ and knowledge of Christ Gave us all an opportunity at salvation.

There is much more to this Adam fellow than meets the eye. He was a down right good ole boy. And set the stage for the Lord and Master......John the Baptist comes to mind.

Certainly food for thought!

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 4 verses 20-23 My son, pay attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not lose sight of them; keep them within your heart. For they are life to those who find them, and health to the whole body. Guard your heart with all diligence, for from it flow springs of life.

 

[Kroogz]

Proverbs 4 verses 20-23 My son, pay attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not lose sight of them; keep them within your heart. For they are life to those who find them, and health to the whole body. Guard your heart with all diligence, for from it flow springs of life.

Lots of freewill in those verses!

 

[Kroogz]

God also hardens hearts.

Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

" God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy."

So stop preaching and teaching that he won't have mercy on some!.........This is exactly what the Jews were doing when this was penned.

The Jews~~" you can't have mercy on all."

The reformed~~"You can't have mercy on all."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes. Yes, I am.

You wouldn't?

No I wouldn’t . I believe Adam sinned. After his wife was beguiled and ate the forbidden fruit and then spoke to him about it.

here’s a few reasons why

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6-7‬ ‭

Notice they both ate it and then thier eyes were opened and they knew ?

it’s not that eve ate and then later on Adam felt sorry for her and ate also commiting suicide there’s nothing there to create any of that. It’s that she was beguiled by the serpents words to her and changed her belief about the fruit and she saw it differently than god showed it to them as death she saw it like this after the serpent presented it and of course she ate

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When God speaks to Adam he first blames God sort of indirectly and also eve for him eating “ the woman you gave me caused it “

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭

Blaming eve for his own transgression didn’t remove his responsability with god though look what he points to as the problem

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So from all this my own thought is that God told the truth to them about the fruit

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

satan taught her a lie and also indirectly taught them that god lied to them about the fruit to keep it away from them.

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬

My belief is that they believed the lie of the devil “ you will not surely die “ and that’s the reasoning for why he also ate it , not that he was beguiled like eve but that he had god saying this

“thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

And then heard this contrary word from a contrary source his wife who hears it from the serpent .

“the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”

And Adam chose the alternate source and word breaking faith with God and following a foreign word believing a lie and following it into death just as god warned and warns throughout the Bible New Testament and old

like Adam we are constantly challenged between what we know god said like eve knew to not eat the fruit , like Adam knew not to eat the fruit …….. and the temptations and whispers of the serpent that come to us through the world we live in

I believe Adam fell when he faced a contrary doctrine regarding a deadly knowledge not meant for mankinds mind and heart.

think of eve Satan never said to her “ the fruit is really pleasant to the eye “ yet that’s something she already thought . This tells us she was looking at it closely and for some reason it pleases her to gaze upon it .

Yet she hadn’t eaten or decided to eat something tells me she might have touched a price before because she says “ we shouldn’t touch it either unless we die “ she shows she is afraid to eat it because of what god said but Satan removes that fear god put in them about the fruit by telling her …… “ you won’t die (like the lord said) ,but he knows it will make you as gods knowing good and evil “

“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:

but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[lrs68]

God also hardens hearts.

Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Amen!

And the Bible proves those that were hardened by God first chose to harden their own hearts. Thank God for giving people what they want. Some wanted to harden their hearts and God made it permanent.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But if you go against your conscience when it warns you, it has the effect of hardening your heart towards God. Makes it harder to hear Him also.

God also hardens hearts.

When the Word of God is revealed to someone, he or she either believes or he or she suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

Those who believe receive the blessing ... those who reject receive the consequence.

As those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness move further and further away from the truth, God gives them over to further and further disastrous behaviors as shown in Romans 1:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


Mankind does not start out with a reprobate mind as some would have us believe ... however, as truth is rejected over and over, God lets go. And please note, the "foolish heart" (vs 21) ... the "uncleanness" (vs 24) ... the "vile affections" (vs 26) ... the "reprobate mind" (vs 28) ... all these attributes occurred over time as folks step further and further away from God.

Give God the honor and praise due to Him in His foresight in providing mankind with all that is needed to turn to Him when He reaches out ... and it's not a matter of "if" ... it's a matter of "when" ... for God reaches out to all mankind ... just as He reached out to Cain. Cain should be a clue to readers of Scripture as to how God treats unbelievers.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No I wouldn’t . I believe Adam sinned. After his wife was beguiled and ate the forbidden fruit and then spoke to him about it.

Adam became one flesh with his wife as instructed in Scripture:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Adam is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ ... Who left His Father and became flesh ...
.

 

[Kroogz]

No I wouldn’t . I believe Adam sinned.

As do I. You obviously put a lot of work into your post. I commend that. But it started from a false assumption/premise.

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭

Blaming eve for his own transgression didn’t remove his responsability with god though look what he points to as the problem

There is nothing in this verse about placing blame......Adam TOOK responsibility.

It is a truthful and honest 1 John 1:9.

What did Adam lie about in this verse?

You were told Adams motivation or you place your own motivations/thoughts/feelings upon Adam.

 

[cv5]

No I wouldn’t . I believe Adam sinned. After his wife was beguiled and ate the forbidden fruit and then spoke to him about it.

here’s a few reasons why

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6-7‬ ‭

Notice they both ate it and then thier eyes were opened and they knew ?

it’s not that eve ate and then later on Adam felt sorry for her and ate also commiting suicide there’s nothing there to create any of that. It’s that she was beguiled by the serpents words to her and changed her belief about the fruit and she saw it differently than god showed it to them as death she saw it like this after the serpent presented it and of course she ate

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When God speaks to Adam he first blames God sort of indirectly and also eve for him eating “ the woman you gave me caused it “

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭

Blaming eve for his own transgression didn’t remove his responsability with god though look what he points to as the problem

“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So from all this my own thought is that God told the truth to them about the fruit

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

satan taught her a lie and also indirectly taught them that god lied to them about the fruit to keep it away from them.

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬

My belief is that they believed the lie of the devil “ you will not surely die “ and that’s the reasoning for why he also ate it , not that he was beguiled like eve but that he had god saying this

“thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

And then heard this contrary word from a contrary source his wife who hears it from the serpent .

“the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”

And Adam chose the alternate source and word breaking faith with God and following a foreign word believing a lie and following it into death just as god warned and warns throughout the Bible New Testament and old

like Adam we are constantly challenged between what we know god said like eve knew to not eat the fruit , like Adam knew not to eat the fruit …….. and the temptations and whispers of the serpent that come to us through the world we live in

I believe Adam fell when he faced a contrary doctrine regarding a deadly knowledge not meant for mankinds mind and heart.

think of eve Satan never said to her “ the fruit is really pleasant to the eye “ yet that’s something she already thought . This tells us she was looking at it closely and for some reason it pleases her to gaze upon it .

Yet she hadn’t eaten or decided to eat something tells me she might have touched a price before because she says “ we shouldn’t touch it either unless we die “ she shows she is afraid to eat it because of what god said but Satan removes that fear god put in them about the fruit by telling her …… “ you won’t die (like the lord said) ,but he knows it will make you as gods knowing good and evil “

“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:

but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do yourself a favor, and spend 8 hours auditioning the lectures that I posted.

The TRUTH of Genesis 3 must be rightly understood. As everything else follows.....

 

[Kroogz]

Amen!

And the Bible proves those that were hardened by God first chose to harden their own hearts. Thank God for giving people what they want. Some wanted to harden their hearts and God made it permanent.

I agree. But what verse are you referring to that says "God made it permanent?"

We all thought the Gospel as foolishness while we were perishing. What verse explains that it may or will become permanent foolishness?