Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Perhaps system is a better word (not sure why you pretend otherwise, since your posts make it clear you adhere to a modernized version of "tulip') nowhere in my post did I state they are mutually exclusive btw, that is simply your eisegesis.

TULIP with a smoke screen backed up by a shell and peak maneuver IMO.

 

[cv5]

Yet not one of those verses say an unbeliever cannot become convinced of and believe the Gospel.

True. However, agreeing to this would shipwreck the Calvinists' very reason for existence.

 

[HeIsHere]

Acts16:31:

You (singular) believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ

• Aorist Active Imperative 2nd Person Singular: The jailer is being commanded to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • What some don't want to accept here, is that the imperative/command is made to the will of the one commanded. The jailer is being commanded to choose to believe if he wants the result.
  • The Aorist command is not really concerned with when (time) but with how (aspect) the action is viewed. It's essentially viewed as a unit and something to be done decisively, completely, once-for-all.

And

• Connects the two clauses, so believe is connected to saved

You (singular) will be saved:

• Future Passive Indicative 2nd Person Singular: The jailer will be saved assuming he chooses to obey the command to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
• The Future here can also be expressing certainty.
• The Passive Voice says the saving will be done to the jailer.
  • So, we who read the language know we don't save ourselves.

The Greek has a couple different things to consider:

• There is a logical order, so believe leads to salvation (believe > saved)
  • This cannot be reversed to say saved > believe.
• There is a temporal order, so belief precedes salvation
  • This cannot be reversed to say saved > believe.
  • In regard to the temporal order:
    • The timing can be saved contemporaneous with or after believe.
      • Being that the aorist command is being issued in urgency and completeness, IMO it's best to see the logical order of believe > saved and the temporal concept based upon other Scriptures being contemporaneous or immediate.
      • Though salvation is a process with an entrance and a completion (actually more than one completion) I don't see the process in view. The jailer is facing death for the loss of prisoners.

[Choose to] believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be immediately saved when you believe.

@cv5 @reneweddaybyday @Cameron143 @HeIsHere @Genez

Amen, thank you for this!
Koine Greek has so much more depth to it.

 

[Cameron143]

Perhaps system is a better word (not sure why you pretend otherwise, since your posts make it clear you adhere to a modernized version of "tulip') nowhere in my post did I state they are mutually exclusive btw, that is simply your eisegesis.

Again, I don't follow a process or a system, despite your insistence. I follow Christ. I come to my understanding of truth independently. Just more dishonesty on your part, which is odd given that you believe the fallen natural man has such great abilities but someone who is indwelt of the Spirit has few.

 

[sawdust]

One is saved when they believe. One must first be regenerated for faith to transpire. Fixed it for you.

Do you think that regeneration is not salvation?

 

[NightTwister]

you said ...





"meritorious" ... deserving reward or praise (from Oxford Languages).

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

vs 4 = to him that works, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt = "meritorious"

vs 5 = to him that works not, but believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness = not of works
.

I never said "faith" is "work." Stop bearing false witness against me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Again, I don't follow a process or a system, despite your insistence. I follow Christ. I come to my understanding of truth independently. Just more dishonesty on your part, which is odd given that you believe the fallen natural man has such great abilities but someone who is indwelt of the Spirit has few.

Okay you do not adhere to Reformed doctrine (aka tulip) understood.
Then you will agree completely with post #8991
Awesome!!

 

[BillyBob]

Try sticking to the same testiment. Old and new, judgment was past in differnt ways.

My post was not to point to judgement, but love. God does not love the world, as in all people, the same. If that were true, you would never see talk about His elect, His people, His remnant, those that belong to Him. If you disagree that's fine. However, I think that Sodom and Gomorrah is a prime example of this truth.

 

[rogerg]

Choose to] believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be immediately saved when you believe.

The question you should have asked is who will believe and why will they believe? Man cannot give belief to himself - it is given only by God, as a byproduct of salvation. Therefore, until being given a new heart (from salvation), the spiritually dead will never/ can never "choose to believe"

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
[Jhn 5:38 KJV] 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

[2Co 4:3-5 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[Rom 10:10 KJV] 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

[2Pe 1:3 KJV] 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you think that regeneration is not salvation?

Regeneration is the impartation of life just as conception is the physical impartation of life. Once there is life, all manner of growth takes place. It may not be obvious at first but it will eventually.

 

[Cameron143]

Okay you do not adhere to Reformed doctrine (aka tulip) understood.
Then you will agree completely with post #8991
Awesome!!

I guess your dishonesty is so deeply rooted that it now impacts all you do.

 

[HeIsHere]

Regeneration is the impartation of life just as conception is the physical impartation of life. Once there is life, all manner of growth takes place. It may not be obvious at first but it will eventually.

The theory of life imparted before belief, or belief being enabled first, has been put to rest.
See post #8991

 

[HeIsHere]

I guess your dishonesty is so deeply rooted that it now impacts all you do.

I find it interesting the lengths you go to avoid connection to the system (even somewhat modified) and yet still teach its basic ideas.
Okay, carry on.

 

[Cameron143]

The theory of life imparted before belief, or belief being enabled first, has been put to rest.
See post #8991

Only for the naturalists.

 

[Cameron143]

I find it interesting the lengths you go to avoid connection to the system (even somewhat modified) and yet still teach its basic ideas.
Okay, carry on.

It's not what I teach that is the evidence of your dishonesty this time, but how I arrive at it; though your dishonesty is usually in the misrepresentation of what I believe.

 

[BillyBob]

Since when do pre-birth lottery winners need help? It's in the bag.

Same goes for the gospel message. They don't need that either. Evidently it is trivial commentary meant to terrorize the lottery losers letting them know what they are missing out on.

If by lottery winner, you are speaking of a person that God has set aside as His, one who is spoken of as His elect, one who belongs to Him – then yes, it is a comfort to know that I am a part of this group. There is no comfort in being outside of this group! God will not let a single person who belongs to Him slip through His fingers.

That means that our sins have been forgiven – past, present, and yes even future. Christ was sent to pay the price for our sins. What greater assurance could one possibly have?

On the other hand, you should keep asking yourself – HAVE I DONE ENOUGH?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I never said "faith" is "work." Stop bearing false witness against me.

excuse me ... I'll clear it up by saying ... Romans 4 clearly states that faith is not "meritorious"

"meritorious" ... deserving reward or praise (from Oxford Languages).

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

vs 4 = to him that works, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt = "meritorious"

vs 5 = to him that works not, but believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness = not of works
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Acts16:31:

You (singular) believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ

• Aorist Active Imperative 2nd Person Singular: The jailer is being commanded to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • What some don't want to accept here, is that the imperative/command is made to the will of the one commanded. The jailer is being commanded to choose to believe if he wants the result.
  • The Aorist command is not really concerned with when (time) but with how (aspect) the action is viewed. It's essentially viewed as a unit and something to be done decisively, completely, once-for-all.

Thanks for explaining the Greek.

"What some don't want to accept here" ... your post has already received evidence of this. Sad really after the time and effort you took to explain. like I told Kroogz, he's correcting God's grammar ... smh ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

On the other hand, you should keep asking yourself – HAVE I DONE ENOUGH?

there is no need to question God ... do you not believe what is written?

Romans 10:9-13 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
.

 

[Kroogz]

Kroogz never said "man is able to save himself" ... that is actually your false reasoning projected on to Kroogz.
.

Calvies~~ I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

@reneweddaybyday ~~ I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

@reneweddaybyday believes that man can save himself......Make that make sense!?