Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

Instability comes from not having truth while trying to force what you want to be accepted as truth, into a dogmatic format, as if dogmatism can transform it into truth.

It makes one unstable because we do not have the human strength to make something so, because we want it to be so.

Powerful!

 

[HeIsHere]

An angry condemning demeanor is the tell.

 

[Psalm1]

beautiful man of God

 

[Magenta]

2chr 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; 14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

.....but we know there were those there that mocked and ridiculed
we know that for sure.

That happens here also, when God is praised for what He has done for us, some mock, ridicule, and even condemn.

It comes across as quite bizarre behaviour from those who call themselves Christians..

 

[HeIsHere]

Why do you ask?
You should be able to know for yourself.

 

[Psalm1]

So you do teach that people can lose their salvation? I did not ask if you understood it. Jesus also said that ALL those given to Him by the Father WOULD come to Him, and He would cast none out of those who came to Him. I was raised in a religious home and school system. I departed the faith. Did I belong in the first place? Lots of people depart the faith. It does not mean that those who left were saved. Scripture says those who depart show that they did not belong in the first place. People do not become unborn again.

If you are a Pelagian heretic, you will be called such. It does not necessarily mean you WILL blaspheme God, but quite a few of them here do, and maybe they actually do go hand-in-hand. They do all seem to have Calvinism derangement syndrome, despite the fact that what they screech about in regards to Calvinism is not taught exclusively in Calvinism, so their ignorance guides them in that regard, and they do not appear to be interested in being educated bacause then they would have to modify their views. And it does also strike me as very odd that the love God has for us should be denied in such a way as to consign His saving grace to be on a par with heinous criminal activity.

Some of these heretics speak of salvation as if God does it by coin-toss or lottery. That is completely unBiblical. They make claims such as, if God acts unilaterally, He is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will. They say God is unfair to do the very thing Scripture shows Him doing from the beginning of the Bible to the very end. They kick and scream against His sovereignty and refuse to accept what Scripture actually says, always always always reading what they want into certain verses, if not rejecting them completely, rewriting them, contradicting, and outright denying what Scripture says. Some of the things they say are quite disgusting, like if God did not ask Mary's permission, God raped Mary, even though the Biblical record shows Mary being informed, not asked. Matters not. They cannot seem to help themselves. They come across as incapable just as Scripture says of the unregenerated. They refuse to accept that being enabled is not being forced. And you know, it is a tragedy within Christendom that people think because they can choose what colour of socks to wear, or what to have for lunch, that it throws over every single thing said of man in the Bible about his incurably wicked heart supressing the truth in unrighteousness and his inability to love God until set free by Christ and given a circumcised heart.

Pelagian heretics reject what the Bible says of man. He is not such a bad guy in their eyes. He is not a slave to sin, taken captive to do the will of the devil, blinded to truth, he is not unable to submit to God's law, he does not refuse to come into the light as a lover of darkness, not a God hater, he comprehends and chooses to believe that which Scripture says he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend, he is not opposed to the spiritual things of God, he is not a bad tree and he can bring forth the good fruit of faith, which Jesus says is impossible... well, the list gets longer the more time I am here. They conflate spiritual death with physical death and then claim they don't. They say they do not teach what they actually do, that the flesh, which according to Scripture serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, instead brings forth fruit unto life. The claim that man is born with everything he needs but then that gets contradicted along with much of what they say because their error is so gross it cannot hep but spill over and contaminate the rest of their thinking on this matter. They ascribe to the natural/unregenerated man abilities that only the spiritual/generated man is in possession of. Yes, a great tragedy.

Man’s heart is deceitful above all things and incurable (Jer 17 v 9), himself full of evil (Mark 7 v 21-23), loves darkness rather than light (John 3 v 19), cannot come to God on his own (John 6 v 44), does not seek for God (Rom 3 v 10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom 5 v 6), nothing good dwells in his flesh (Rom 7 v 18), is a slave of sin (Rom 6 v 20, John 8 v 34, 2 Tim 2 v 26), cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor 2 v 14), is dead in his sins (Eph 2 v 1), is by nature a child of wrath (Eph 2 v 3), is at enmity with God (Eph 2 v 15), hostile to God and cannot submit to God's law (Rom 8 v 7), blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4 v 4), hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his evil deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 20). Therefore we rightfully conclude in accordance with the conditions described of the unregenerated man in Scripture that his inborn inclination is to reject God. Thanks be to God, Who appoints people to believe (Acts 13 v 48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph 1 v 4), predestines us to adoption (Eph 1 v 5), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim 1 v 9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thes 2 v 13), leads us to and grants us repentance (Rom 2 v 4, 2 Tim 2 v 24-25), grants the act of believing (Phil 1 v 29), works faith in the believer (John 6 v 28-29), causes us to be born again (1 Pet 1 v 3), born again not by our will, effort or desire but by His will and desire (John 1 v 12-13), grants that we come to Jesus (John 6 v 65), draws people to Himself (John 6 v 44), predestines us to salvation (Rom 8 v 29-30), and circumcises our heart (with the heart one believes [Rom 10 v 10]) as promised in Deut 30 v 6, all according to His purpose (Phil 2 v 13). The stony ground of man’s wicked heart is not good soil. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so! (Matt 7 v 18 + 12 v 33; Luke 6 v 43). All this and more weighed against zero verses articulating the so-called “free will” of the natural man, which is a vain man-exalting philosophically based doctrine erroneously and egregiously elevated to Bible truth. Praise God and to His glory, what is impossible with man is possible with God.

Look, I am way more osas than you are.
My position is from scripture.

I LOOK at romans 11.
I don't modify it and try to reason that it says something different.

You are using conjecture to say the produgal never was the fathers son.
How could the produgal be unborn?

 

[HeIsHere]

A stumbling block indeed....

 

[Psalm1]

Do you answer yes or no to these questions?

What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?

i enjoy the back and forth with you, but I can not read that cursive purple writing.
It is very pretty, but i can not read it.

 

[lrs68]

Acts 17:6

But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some brethren to the rulers of the city, crying out, ​

“These who have turned the world upside down have come here too. ​

Who's definition are we using?
.......

Seeing that God knows the DAY OF HIS RETURN we are using current days definition because we must match what Jesus specifically said.

 

[lrs68]

Being baptized into the name meant speaking/teaching about the person.

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, ​

that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed ​

through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and ​

in the sea. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2​

Placing someone simply into water does not cause you to know the knowledge one needs to learn in order to identify with that person.

He said to MAKE DISCIPLES first before Baptizing them.

I don't understand someone like yourself who claims to be saved and a Christian but has no issue with distorting the very WORD OF THE GOD you proclaim to be serving.

I wonder how God Himself thinks about what people like you effortlessly do so easily just to ""win the discussion?""

 

[Psalm1]

Do you answer yes or no to these questions?

What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?

OSAS is 100 % scriptural. You have yet to invoke 1 corinthians where it says "some are saved as through fire, their saved ,but their works are burned up

I am also seeing that a person can walk away from the faith.

Rom 11 SPECIFICALLY says that.

rev 3.
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

rev 3
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.









Some will be spewed out of his mouth.
Some will have their candlestick removed.

Jesus is speaking to believers

 

[Magenta]

i enjoy the back and forth with you, but I can not read that cursive purple writing.
It is very pretty, but i can not read it.

It is not cursive, and the text is below the panel also, toggle the cog when you quote and you can see the full text that way as well.

 

[Magenta]

OSAS is 100 % scriptural. You have yet to invoke 1 corinthians where it says "some are saved as through fire, their saved ,but their works are burned up

I am also seeing that a person can walk away from the faith.

Rom 11 SPECIFICALLY says that.

rev 3.
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

rev 3
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Some will be spewed out of his mouth.
Some will have their candlestick removed.

Jesus is speaking to believers

First you say OSAS is 100% Scriptural but then you disagree with it. Which is it?

from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

 

[Psalm1]

First you say OSAS is 100% Scriptural but then you disagree with it. Which is it?

from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

I see a plurality in a lot of doctrine.

The rich are poor.
God is love and Judgement.
Election and choice operate side by side.

God will never go back on his covenant. It is irrevocable.
Stupid foolish men can walk away and choose the devil

 

[Cameron143]

OSAS is 100 % scriptural. You have yet to invoke 1 corinthians where it says "some are saved as through fire, their saved ,but their works are burned up

I am also seeing that a person can walk away from the faith.

Rom 11 SPECIFICALLY says that.

rev 3.
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

rev 3
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.









Some will be spewed out of his mouth.
Some will have their candlestick removed.

Jesus is speaking to believers

He's speaking to the churches. Probably not all believers.

 

[HeIsHere]

He's speaking to the churches. Probably not all believers.

He has believers in view that is all that matters.

 

[BillyBob]

Regeneration follows belief.
Just like birth follows pregnancy.

But, if you want to believe what makes you feel comfortable?
Be my guest.

What Calvinism did was just like the Catholic church did with the issue of the sinlessness of Jesus.
They concocted a concept (immaculate conception) to explain how he could be born sinless.

So your founders came up with that God regenerates us (which normally follows salvation) so he can save us....

Such teachings have their roots in human impatience.
For we must go through a period of resisting the devil.
The devil in wishing to trip us up, will demand to explain how we can believe something.

Resisting requires we suffer while we wait upon the Lord for an answer.
An answer that some want today, not tomorrow.

So? Some grab onto what others say is the answer, when it is not an answer at all...
In that manner the devil does not really flee.
He simply backs off and watches.
He does not flee.
Nor does our lack of joyous happiness that can only come by having endured until the answer comes.

That is why what some have decided to cling to what they call "conviction" which really is a state of sublimation and delusion.
Much like the transgender who insists that you see them as they want to be seen, behaving as if they truly believe it.

I do enjoy your posts! I think that you have an excellent grasp of the written word, in fact I have learned numerous things by reading your comments.
The main thing that I object to are posts which speak of grace, then in some way accompany it with an action that we must perform which enables us to receive it. If action is required from us then regeneration must take place first. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Peace.....

 

[Magenta]

I see a plurality in a lot of doctrine.

The rich are poor.
God is love and Judgement.
Election and choice operate side by side.

God will never go back on his covenant. It is irrevocable.
Stupid foolish men can walk away and choose the devil

Election and choice the way many present it do not operate side by side at all.

The free will claim is that the incurably wicked heart from which no good thing can come produces faith.

They may say they make no such claim but that is exactly what they teach.

They teach that the flesh, which serves the law of sin and brings forth the fruit of death,
can and does make a choice that is not possible to make from the flesh which opposes
the spiritual things of God and is incapable of submitting to God. But they will say
that is not what they teach either, but that is again exactly what they teach.
They ascribe to the unregenerated man what is only possible of the regenerated man.

Jesus sets us free.

 

[Cameron143]

He has believers in view that is all that matters.

He is commending and exhorting the churches. He ends each time with...he who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Some hear and some don't. I wonder who hears what Jesus says. Oh yeah...my sheep hear my voice and follow me.

 

[HeIsHere]

He is commending and exhorting the churches. He ends each time with...he who has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Some hear and some don't. I wonder who hears what Jesus says. Oh yeah...my sheep hear my voice and follow me.

There goes that lens, lol.