Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

#2 There is no statement re: God's anger in those verses.

Correct.

[Gen 3:17 KJV]
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ***ground*** for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

[Gen 8:21 NKJV]
And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ***ground*** for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

 

[BillyBob]

I confess I didn't understand what you were getting at. Are you saying unbelievers are elected as well?

What I am saying is that even though they will surely become believers, Christ will not let them slip through His fingers, they do not begin life as one. They come into this world a sinner just as all men do.

 

[NightTwister]

Yes but those Verses speak about God leading and directing which only relates to those already saved and obeying the Will of God.

No, actually they don't. If you continue reading, you'll see the results of people who go their own way and reject God.

 

[NightTwister]

I must have missed something.
Where is the qoute of cv5 calling members "satan" and "heretics" for believing election ?

You clearly missed a lot.

 

[lrs68]

No, actually they don't. If you continue reading, you'll see the results of people who go their own way and reject God.

Agreed!

The Verses by themselves are explaining God's intent for those who follow God.

But as you have explained [(THE FREE WILL ABILITY)] people are given allowed many to {reject} God.

 

[NightTwister]

Agreed!

The Verses by themselves are explaining God's intent for those who follow God.

But as you have explained [(THE FREE WILL ABILITY)] people are given allowed many to {reject} God.

I never said anything about "free will ability." Those are your words. God's sovereignty does not eliminate man's responsibility.

 

[lrs68]

I never said anything about "free will ability." Those are your words. God's sovereignty does not eliminate man's responsibility.

Man doesn't reject God because God makes man reject Him either.

So in one post you believe Free Will and the next you literally make a claim that opposes. I am beginning to see the issue now.

 

[Genez]

A couple comments:

#2 There is no statement re: God's anger in those verses.

#4 What more needs be said (or conjectured) re: [spiritual] death?

What happens to man's spirit or man's spirit/soul is all theory and debate. Men cannot even agree on whether man was body, spirit, soul or body spirit/soul.

'Well, my pastor says' is a phrase Paul was rooting out of Christian infancy in 50 something AD.

He failed to do so.

Then men created digital social media.

Note...

Some like to add words for representing his own personal feelings on a matter that does not exist in the text.

It's called... "Creative God Substitution"

This kind of person thinks debatable things means a license to create one's own answers that sound good to himself.

​

.... "Well, if I were God? Obviously.​

.......................... I would do it this way!"​

​

Eisegesis = 'I is a Jesus!'​

grace and peace ..........

 

[Genez]

Specifically it's to make Disciples and Baptize. Anyone around us qualifies for that.

Where in the world can you go today where the name of Jesus is totally unknown?

The Great Commission filled up that vacuum.
There are places today where the commission took effect and since then another religion has dominated.

But, all have heard in someway of Jesus and the Cross.
They just do not want to believe in many cases.

Making disciples today is the fruit of the Great Commission's planted vines.
The Great Commission was sending out those who would plant vines where no vines existed before.

There is a fine line involved.

Where in the world can you go today where the name of Jesus is totally unknown? Unheard of? ​

Grace and peace .......

 

[Mem]

Eph 1:5
He has only mentioned that it is done according to His good pleasure. And, He has not revealed, at least to me, what that entails. However, it probably means that He [can and will] do as He pleases! Are you here to tell Him otherwise?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Timothy 2 3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

Anakin, I am your fathah... or maybe tis better understood as,
"Anakin, I am your son."

 

[Genez]

Show me DIRECTLY anywhere Hagin is doctrinally incorrect.
Use a bible.
Not some haters opinion.

Why do you ask?
You should be able to know for yourself.

 

[NightTwister]

Man doesn't reject God because God makes man reject Him either.

So in one post you believe Free Will and the next you literally make a claim that opposes. I am beginning to see the issue now.

I never said I believe in "Free Will" (as you describe it). Stop attributing things to me that are not true. That's called "bearing false witness against your neighbor."

 

[lrs68]

Where in the world can you go today where the name of Jesus is totally unknown?

The Great Commission filled up that vacuum.
There are places today where the commission took effect and since then another religion has dominated.

But, all have heard in someway of Jesus and the Cross.
They just do not want to believe in many cases.

Making disciples today is the fruit of the Great Commission's planted vines.
The Great Commission was sending out those who would plant vines where no vines existed before.

There is a fine line involved.

Where in the world can you go today where the name of Jesus is totally unknown? Unheard of? ​

Grace and peace .......

If the entire world knows about Jesus then the Bible has lied because God hasn't returned.

Knowing that a person named Jesus once lived is nowhere the same as hearing the Gospel preached.

 

[lrs68]

I never said I believe in "Free Will" (as you describe it). Stop attributing things to me that are not true. That's called "bearing false witness against your neighbor."

How do you describe free will?

If rejecting or accepting God when He makes Himself known to us isn't an act of free will then explain when free will exists [since you believe in it differently than I do] ?

 

[NightTwister]

How do you describe free will?

If rejecting or accepting God when He makes Himself known to us isn't an act of free will then explain when free will exists [since you believe in it differently than I do] ?

We make choices every minute of the day, and we choose freely. But the choices we make do not contradict the sovereignty of God. We make choices based on our nature. Only when God changes our spiritually dead nature do we choose Him.

 

[Rufus]

Because, God only elects those whom He [wants] to believe.

FTFY!

 

[Rufus]

A couple comments:

#2 There is no statement re: God's anger in those verses.

#4 What more needs be said (or conjectured) re: [spiritual] death?

What happens to man's spirit or man's spirit/soul is all theory and debate. Men cannot even agree on whether man was body, spirit, soul or body spirit/soul.

'Well, my pastor says' is a phrase Paul was rooting out of Christian infancy in 50 something AD.

He failed to do so.

Then men created digital social media.

Do a word study of the Heb "garash" (Strong's 1644) translated "drove out" in Gen 3:24. It's most frequently used with respect to God's enemies or Israel's enemies. And this makes perfectly good sense in the context of the post-fall Genesis narrative since God clearly reconciled Eve unto Himself in 3:15 while Adam is conspicuously absent from the text. Likewise, God's displeasure with Adam in v. 24 is very obvious and here we have the conspicuous absence of Eve. So, what we have in v. 24 is God driving out his enemy Adam from his Garden (temple), just as Christ angrily drove out the Father's enemies from the temple of his day.

Can you connect the dots?

 

[Rufus]

Man doesn't reject God because God makes man reject Him either.

So in one post you believe Free Will and the next you literally make a claim that opposes. I am beginning to see the issue now.

Let's run with your fallacy for a moment. Suppose when the Good Samaritan came across the half-dead crime victim laying on the road and he decided to do as the others before him did: Pass him by! Would this mean that the Good Samaritan was the cause of the man being a crime victim? Did the Good Samaritan make/force/coerce, compel the criminals to attack their victim?

Likewise, man comes into this world spiritually dead due to our Federal Head Adam. God did not make/force/coerce or compel Adam to sin. God's holy, righteous, good nature requires Him to punish sin; for justice and righteousness are the foundation to God's throne (Ps 97:2), , so if God chooses to leave people in their fallen, dead state and punish rather than forgive how does this make God evil, wicked, unjust, unfair, unrighteous, etc.?

 

[Hakawaka]

Those that turn from the faith ...what do you make of that?

EXACTLY like a wife leaves the husband (marriage covenant), or visa viz.

I 100% understand osas and the salvation covenant.
For anyone to break that covenant is foolish.

Jesus said If you deny me before men I will deny you before my father.

Ok, so what does osass make of that? You can just go ahead and do it because once you're saved you're always saved?

OSAS is simply not true. Let me quote this again:


the “once saved, always saved” teaching infers or presumes that somehow:

• No virgin’s lamp can go out…(Matthew 25:8)
• No promising harvest can be choked with thorns…(Matthew 13:7)
• No branch in Christ can ever be cut off for not abiding…(John 15:6)
• No forgiveness can ever be forfeited… (Matthew 18:32)
• No name can be blotted out of God’s book…(Revelation 3:5; Exodus 32:33)
• No salt can ever lose its flavor…(Matthew 5:13)

“Once Saved, Always Saved,” says that nobody can ever:

• “Receive the grace of God in vain”… (2 Corinthians 6:1)
• “Bury [their] talents”…(Matthew 25:18)
• “Neglect such great salvation”… (Hebrews 2:3)
• “Look back” after putting [their] hand to the plow… (Luke 9:62)
• Nor “deny the Lord that bought them” and “brings upon themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1)
• Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth… (Revelation 3:16)

“Once Saved, Always Saved” will argue that:

• If you are lost, you were never found (John 17:12)
• If one falls, he was never standing (Romans 11:16-22; Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never attached to the vine and once green (John 15:1-6)
• “If any man draws back,” proves that he never had anything to draw back from (Hebrews 10:38,39)
• If one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened (Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If you “again get entangled in the pollution of the world,” it shows that you never escaped (2 Peter 2:20)
• If you “put salvation away” you never truly had it (Hebrews 10:35; Psalms 51:11)
• If you make a shipwreck of your faith, there was no ship of faith there, to begin with!! (1 Timothy 1:19)

 

[Cameron143]

OSAS is simply not true. Let me quote this again:


the “once saved, always saved” teaching infers or presumes that somehow:

• No virgin’s lamp can go out…(Matthew 25:8)
• No promising harvest can be choked with thorns…(Matthew 13:7)
• No branch in Christ can ever be cut off for not abiding…(John 15:6)
• No forgiveness can ever be forfeited… (Matthew 18:32)
• No name can be blotted out of God’s book…(Revelation 3:5; Exodus 32:33)
• No salt can ever lose its flavor…(Matthew 5:13)

“Once Saved, Always Saved,” says that nobody can ever:

• “Receive the grace of God in vain”… (2 Corinthians 6:1)
• “Bury [their] talents”…(Matthew 25:18)
• “Neglect such great salvation”… (Hebrews 2:3)
• “Look back” after putting [their] hand to the plow… (Luke 9:62)
• Nor “deny the Lord that bought them” and “brings upon themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1)
• Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth… (Revelation 3:16)

“Once Saved, Always Saved” will argue that:

• If you are lost, you were never found (John 17:12)
• If one falls, he was never standing (Romans 11:16-22; Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never attached to the vine and once green (John 15:1-6)
• “If any man draws back,” proves that he never had anything to draw back from (Hebrews 10:38,39)
• If one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened (Hebrews 6:4-6)
• If you “again get entangled in the pollution of the world,” it shows that you never escaped (2 Peter 2:20)
• If you “put salvation away” you never truly had it (Hebrews 10:35; Psalms 51:11)
• If you make a shipwreck of your faith, there was no ship of faith there, to begin with!! (1 Timothy 1:19)

How do you understand Philippians 1:6?