Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

Man's faculties didn't cease as a result of sin, they became corrupted. Man can still think and emote, but he does so differently than before sin. Man is able to live in the natural world. It is in the spiritual realm that he cannot operate well.

So then the ability to believe the Cross is plausible because understanding right from wrong and judgement between the two is all that is needed to believe the Gospel. If one can understand we are wrong, Christ is right and right leads to life and wrong leads to death they can respond to the Gospel of their own volition because God supplies the grace needed to keep the flesh in check so the will is free to respond. Not everyone prefers the dark Cameron despite what you might think of mankind.

1Cor.15:3-4
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The new birth is needed for faith.

 

[Jackson129]

Man's faculties didn't cease as a result of sin, they became corrupted. Man can still think and emote, but he does so differently than before sin. Man is able to live in the natural world. It is in the spiritual realm that he cannot operate well.

Ok even the hard core reformers here i have all seen post that when man is in front of God at the great white throne judgment. He will have no excuse.

If every single man has no excuse then every single man had a chance. It dosent get any simpler than that.

When Jesus died on the cross it did 2 things (1) convict all the non believers so they have no excuse (2) allow the believer or the elect a way to be reconciled with God.

Jesus didnt die just for the believers. Its just only the believer or the elect can reap the benefits to what his death accomplished. Those are two differnt things no matter how you look at it. They do however yield the same results.

 

[SpeakWhatYouSee]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

I think this question is a bit like asking do we have the ability to see the full electro magnetic wavelength spectrum.
Until advancement in science and technologies we would say that we're have the ability all the wavelengths relating to colours ie red blue, green etc. However these colours are only a fraction of the total EM wavelengths spectrum. New tools and technologies further open our eyes to there being more to what we can visibly see so now where can say no, we don't have that natural ability to see the full EM spectrum.

When it comes to freewill, can we really know that are choices we have are the full array of choices possible?

 

[Genez]

adam isn’t dead yet here’s proof

Not dead yet *physically.*

When he ate?
He died SPIRITUALLY!

Then he ran and hid!

 

[Cameron143]

So then the ability to believe the Cross is plausible because understanding right from wrong and judgement between the two is all that is needed to believe the Gospel. If one can understand we are wrong, Christ is right and right leads to life and wrong leads to death they can respond to the Gospel of their own volition because God supplies the grace needed to keep the flesh in check so the will is free to respond. Not everyone prefers the dark Cameron despite what you might think of mankind.

1Cor.15:3-4
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The new birth is needed for faith.

Yes man can understand what the Bible teaches. That's not the problem. The problem is that it is foolishness to him.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not dead yet *physically.*

When he ate?
He died SPIRITUALLY!

Then he ran and hid!

So god continued to have a relationship with a spiritually dead person ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes man can understand what the Bible teaches. That's not the problem. The problem is that it is foolishness to him.

mmhm tbey are wiser in thier own mind so they reject it believing it to be foolishness bit someone else might receive it as the power of god to save thier souls from impending doom because it doesn’t seem like foolishness to them they believe it they grab hold of the Hope set before them

 

[sawdust]

I don't believe man is inherently evil or totally depraved as you would define total depravity. And I wouldn't say to any pregnant woman that her child is of no consequence. More wrong and odd statements.

Then why on earth would your mind suddenly jump to abortion?

When I learnt this, my mind didn't suddenly think "abortion". It explained a lot of the nature of man and the hows and whys of being born fallen into a fallen world and the battle between the mind (soul) and flesh.

The problem is Cameron you have a habit of making general statements without giving any in depth explanation of what you mean so what do you mean when you quote verses like Jer.17:9?

I never said you would say that, it was a general statement of anyone trying to tell a woman that, so stop making it personal. Eyes off self.

 

[Genez]

So god continued to have a relationship with a spiritually dead person ?

What was the first thing the Lord did on behalf of Adam and Eve?

He offered a blood sacrifice on their behalf.

After all.
Where do you think those animal skins came from to make their new wardrobe?

 

[Cameron143]

Ok even the hard core reformers here i have all seen post that when man is in front of God at the great white throne judgment. He will have no excuse.

If every single man has no excuse then every single man had a chance. It dosent get any simpler than that.

When Jesus died on the cross it did 2 things (1) convict all the non believers so they have no excuse (2) allow the believer or the elect a way to be reconciled with God.

Jesus didnt die just for the believers. Its just only the believer or the elect can reap the benefits to what his death accomplished. Those are two differnt things no matter how you look at it. They do however yield the same results.

You are correct that man is without excuse. I don't believe it is true that Jesus died for every single person who ever lived.

 

[Cameron143]

Then why on earth would your mind suddenly jump to abortion?

When I learnt this, my mind didn't suddenly think "abortion". It explained a lot of the nature of man and the hows and whys of being born fallen into a fallen world and the battle between the mind (soul) and flesh.

The problem is Cameron you have a habit of making general statements without giving any in depth explanation of what you mean so what do you mean when you quote verses like Jer.17:9?

I never said you would say that, it was a general statement of anyone trying to tell a woman that, so stop making it personal. Eyes off self.

Grace and peace.

 

[Jackson129]

You are correct that man is without excuse. I don't believe it is true that Jesus died for every single person who ever lived.

He died for them in the sence to condemn all non believers to having no excuse and all believers to have a way to be reconciled. That is the whole world. That is everyone in it.

 

[sawdust]

Yes man can understand what the Bible teaches. That's not the problem. The problem is that it is foolishness to him.

If it is foolishness to all men then how did those who are given to Christ learn from the Father? Are you suggesting they are regenerated before being in Christ?

John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So, according to what you wrote above, it's God's will to become a possible savior of men -- sort of like how He made the ancient Israelites' freedom from bondage to Pharaoh possible for them, right?

And since you now admit that it's not God's [decretive] will to save everyone on the planet, then how could it have been His will to send his Son into the world to die for everyone on the planet that He never intended in eternity to save?

No, Christ died for our sin, the barrier is removed for everyone. It is finished. I have already explained this (maybe it wasn't to you but.. ) The Cross is not the direct means of man's salvation, if it were then everyone would indeed be saved. The Cross removed sin and saved Christ. There is nothing now that stands between God and man for God the Father has reconciled the world to Himself, He holds no-one's sin against them anymore. Now the issue is "what say you of Christ?". Christ rose from the dead, salvation successful. Now who wants to join in Christ's salvation? Accept or reject, you choose.

Hopefully one day God will give you the insight to see what he has accomplished.

The point of difference between having salvation or not having salvation is "whosoever believes in Him", it is not "whosoever is chosen of God".[/QUOTE]Well said .

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But ye ( the apostles ) shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[sawdust]

Grace and peace.

Once again, another cop out. You constantly refuse to explain anything in detail then wonder why people misunderstand what you are saying.

 

[studier]

@Genez & @Pilgrimshope

It would be interesting to see your discussion get into dichotomy vs. trichotomy. A few of the verses Pilgrim recently posted seem to speak of trichotomy in fallen man.

 

[Blain]

It is not adding to it.


I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea,
and for all who have not met me personally. My goal is that they may be encouraged
in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding,
in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the
treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:1-3

I am giving you buried treasure that has been dug out.

Christ is the Word! John 1:1.

We need to grow in knowledge to have the ability to dig out hidden treasure.
Treasures that those who only walk on the surface are totally unaware of.

Here is where you are right now. "If its not on the surface! It is adding to the Word of God."

Sorry.
I am not going to back down.

You must someday come to see what I speak of for yourself if you are to get it.

You (all of us) need to find a good pastor teacher first if you ever will.

I have only one teacher and that is Christ himself but all I am asking for is evidence for your claim and you resort to making me seem unlearned and claiming insight this is not how one conveys truth rather their words are verified by scripture.

When you claim to have hidden insight well we are to test all spirits are we not? does not the sword sharpen the sword? so if you are going to make claims like that and claim to have insight then you need to be able to back it up ort else no one will listen to you.

 

[sawdust]

Well said .

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But ye ( the apostles ) shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:20-21‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Just to clarify ... for reasons I can't work out, your post has me saying what Rufus said with what I said underneath but not in quotes.

I understood what you were responding to so it's no hassle for me but maybe if you could just be watchful of that in the future for the sake of clarity? Appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Jackson129]

@Genez & @Pilgrimshope

It would be interesting to see your discussion get into dichotomy vs. trichotomy. A few of the verses Pilgrim recently posted seem to speak of trichotomy in fallen man.

I think I failed math class haha. But Jesus number 1 command said to love God with all you heart-mind-soul. Matt-22-37 that's 3 parts no matter how you dice it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He died for them in the sence to condemn all non believers to having no excuse and all believers to have a way to be reconciled. That is the whole world. That is everyone in it.

Yeah I’m the law

What was the first thing the Lord did on behalf of Adam and Eve?

He offered a blood sacrifice on their behalf.

After all.
Where do you think those animal skins came from to make their new wardrobe?

yeah Christ was slain from the beginning is what that’s about that’s kind of my point we’ve never been unable or dead spiritually we’re going to die spiritually the dead who are raised died physically and they are raised in tbier spiritual form both good and bad folk and then they are judged and some are cast into the second death that’s the spiritual death he’s trying to save our spirit from the second death

“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

flesh is what is “dead to god”

“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Ever Notice after Samuel had died physically he was raised up by the which spiritually and said he was sleeping ? He had died the first death but his spirit was resting and she disturbed it

i think you have that part backwards but I digress it’s not worth arguing again and again over the same thing . I still would say let’s have a few scriptures sayong man is spiritually dead rather than having to ask rhetorical questions ot should be plainly stated that man died spiritually when Adam ate the fruit bit it actually says they became as gods knowing good and evil then had children who god blessed and had a relationship with at least to my old eyes that’s how it reads



but to say he spiritually died to god and man’s born naturally spiritually dead …. Seems to me at least like a pretty far leap . The Bible says things repeatedly when it’s a point of truth. It says throughout the New Testament that man has a spirit