Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
John 3:17 KJV
this world rejected him even though he came to save them. This is an impossibility to you of course because everything’s already determined and no one has a choice ect ect so it’s not going to register with you
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
jesus died for the entire worlds sin not just believers can you acknowledge that part ?
if you can then you can also see tbat Jesus doing what he did isn’t the end of the equation otherwise all the world would be saved so …….what’s the factor that determines who in the world will be saved and who won’t be saved by Jesus ?
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
( because he came to save them all )
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
You probably can’t see how this addresses the whole world he loves and came to save offering them salvation …..but I do and I’m sure some other also do but you are also free to choose what to believe
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
In their haste to misrepresent, they jump straight from being enabled to being forced to believe.
But of course they have it all wrong. We know we are free because Jesus set us free.
They don't even like us acknowledging what God has done for us.
That's how sick and twisted some of them are.
The truth offends them.
Our soul ? Lol how did we get to that subject ?
Isn’t man a living soul who has a body made of flesh and a spirit that gives him life from god ?
what I’m saying is in scripture we humans are talked about in terms of flesh and spirit
“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV
“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
Romans 8:5 KJV
“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
Galatians 6:8
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17
Back in Eden the problem they caused was this one
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
about nature became conflicted between good and evil the evil we act upon with our flesh bodies through lust the physical actions of sin
god communicates with us through our spiritual parts not the physical body but the spiritual part of man within
“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
Proverbs 20:27
god has a spiritual connection with mankind since creation again what we need is his spirit to come be with us reseem us and cleanse us nnorder to redeem our spirit when our flesh dies for sin
our new bodies are spiritual and eternal because we’re becoming spiritual people in Christ made in gods image who is a spirit
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:35, 44, 49-50
only our spirit can inherit the kingdom
... no one denies the individual verses submitted in your panels ... the issue is that you conflate verses set out by the Author of Scripture in one section of Scripture with other verses set out by the Author of Scripture in another section of Scripture without any consideration as to whether you are rightly dividing God's Word.2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
When you add Scripture to your panels, do you care whether you are rightly dividing the word of truth ?
When God tells us to be diligent in our workmanship when it comes to Scripture, what is your response to that instruction?
If/When we accurately present Scripture, we need not be ashamed. However, in our presentation of Scripture ... will we stand approved before Him?
How we handle God's Word (which He has magnified above His name - Psalm 138:2) matters to God ... Who gave us His Word and expects us to study in a manner wherein we are approved unto God.
You spend a lot of time designing your panels, Magenta ... consider that when you include Scripture, you take as much time in your rightly dividing the Word of Truth as you do with the design aspect of your art.
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But the Bible points to such events.
But you would never know it if your sole source for learning is a typical Bible translation.
The Bible will not spell out certain things for us in simple black and white.
Those truths will require insight.
Insight requires before all else, the capacity to receive it, which first must be developed in a believer.
That is why it is vitally important to locate a pastor-teacher who is able to competently teach sound doctrine abundantly.
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9
I never stop giving thanks for you as I remember you in my prayers.
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would
give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him." Ephesians 1:16-17
The Bible (when accurately taught) will provide us with knowledge that we need to learn,
to form a frame of reference to think with. We will need to study... and study... for a season.
Then, it might happen.
When unexpected?
The Holy Spirit will sit us down, and open his eyes to what can be made known from what God had us to learn.
That is why I keep recommending R.B. Thieme, whom I know is capable to teach on such a scale.
But? Not everyone will want it.
grace and peace ................
Adam was a living soul when he was created.
But, after he fell?
He became a dead soul.
He ate? And he died!
Like how men are naturally born spiritually dead.
That is why we needed to be born again, to be made into a living soul!
You said a person doesn't have the capacity for belief until after regeneration. When your mum said you can have icecream if you eat all your dinner, did you not believe her?
Yes but there is a difference between having insight and just adding to scripture, I mean yes the bible does point to certain things or imply certain things but if you just add to it with your own thinking believing that to be insight your walking a dangerous road
Personally I believe in clear cut scripture no interpretation or adding or subtracting it just it says what it says and doesn't what it doesn't. But for the sake of it where in scripture does it even imply such events happened?
So? Do we throw away potential on a whim? Try telling a mother who is carrying her future child, planning and dreaming of the joy set before her that what she carries is of no consequence.
But then you think all humanity is inherently evil and totally depraved from birth, so I guess I shouldn't expect you to think differently.
It can be that way.
An example.
Lucifer was created to be a light bearing angel.
Do you agree?
I have learned it many times over and this is why I am such a believer in his word, what I am not a believer in is adding to it, as for your above question yes he was supposed to be a light bearer more specifically he was called the morning star
Man's faculties didn't cease as a result of sin, they became corrupted. Man can still think and emote, but he does so differently than before sin. Man is able to live in the natural world. It is in the spiritual realm that he cannot operate well.
I don't believe man is inherently evil or totally depraved as you would define total depravity. And I wouldn't say to any pregnant woman that her child is of no consequence. More wrong and odd statements.
So, according to what you wrote above, it's God's will to become a possible savior of men -- sort of like how He made the ancient Israelites' freedom from bondage to Pharaoh possible for them, right?
And since you now admit that it's not God's [decretive] will to save everyone on the planet, then how could it have been His will to send his Son into the world to die for everyone on the planet that He never intended in eternity to save?[/QUOTE]
No, Christ died for our sin, the barrier is removed for everyone. It is finished. I have already explained this (maybe it wasn't to you but.. ) The Cross is not the direct means of man's salvation, if it were then everyone would indeed be saved. The Cross removed sin and saved Christ. There is nothing now that stands between God and man for God the Father has reconciled the world to Himself, He holds no-one's sin against them anymore. Now the issue is "what say you of Christ?". Christ rose from the dead, salvation successful. Now who wants to join in Christ's salvation? Accept or reject, you choose.
Hopefully one day God will give you the insight to see what he has accomplished.
The point of difference between having salvation or not having salvation is "whosoever believes in Him", it is not "whosoever is chosen of God".
so ….
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: ( now they would die as a result of sin but they aren’t dead yet ) therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22-24 KJV
adam isn’t dead yet here’s proof
“And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.”
Genesis 4:1 KJV
mankind isn’t born dead or not able to communicate with god yet here’s proof
“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
Genesis 4:6-7 NIV
Adam is still alive and well Bering fruit and filling the earth with his children who again aren’t born dead and sepersted from god without him at all but rather
“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
Genesis 4:25-26 KJV
Remember
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:13 KJV
Mankind isn’t dead to god still
“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Genesis 5:22, 24
Man wasn’t incapable
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
Hebrews 11:5 KJV
mankind wasn’t “dead to god” even here at this point until he acted after witnessing what they do and did to creation
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6
If they were dead to him or sepersted completely he wouldn’t be so grieved about what we do the truth is this is the situation
“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
Psalm 11:4 KJV
“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
Proverbs 20:27
“Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts:”
Psalm 139:23 KJV
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 KJV
Eventually after men like Noah and Moses and Abraham ect many godly men “saints “ in the ot as god does he watches and sees mankind this happened and was seen
“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
Just like genesis 6 everyone’s become wicked again ….Bit god didint leave it that way and didint destroy them again but he saw that man was lost and had no mediator or intercessor to call them back to redeem them from thier path and current course of destruction he saw this
“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:
( and so tbis is what he did to save them )
therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.”
Isaiah 59:15-17, 20-21 KJV
so then he came preaching the gospel preaching the offer of eternal salvation to everyone to all creation saying believe and be saved
My position is man isn’t born like we become we become like we are because we are tempted and become “ addicted “ to sin and then we need salvation this happens to all adults who live for a time
“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
James 1:14-15 KJV
That’s my position but I don’t think even non believers are incapable of hearing and responding I think it’s this factor that keeps people from Jesus
“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed and corrected.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.”
John 3:19-21 NIV
If a person doesn’t want to give up thier life of sinful pleasures they will not come to listen to Jesus words in the gospel . Everyone sins at some point usually a lot really but not everyone wants to keep sinning and makes that the priority and choice some sinners learn to hate tbat tbey sin and they actually end up changing thier ways because Jesus has made them capable of doing that by his gospel
Just a disclaimer even though we aren’t agreeing on everything I’m enjoying the conversation and mean no offense or disrespect
It is not adding to it.
I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea,
and for all who have not met me personally. My goal is that they may be encouraged
in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding,
in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the
treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:1-3
I am giving you buried treasure that has been dug out.
Christ is the Word! John 1:1.
We need to grow in knowledge to have the ability to dig out hidden treasure.
Treasures that those who only walk on the surface are totally unaware of.
Here is where you are right now. "If its not on the surface! It is adding to the Word of God."
Sorry.
I am not going to back down.
You must someday come to see what I speak of for yourself if you are to get it.
You (all of us) need to find a good pastor teacher first if you ever will.