Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Nobody starts out as a believer. The whole world is blinded. Why do people deny this? Oh. Satan.

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The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
 
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John 3 verse 27~ “A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.” John 1 3 verses :12-13~ To all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God - children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. John 6 3 verse 44~ “No man can come to me except the Father, which hath sent me, draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Romans 9 3 verse 16~ So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. Romans 8 3 verse 16~ The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
 
There were problems in the church and yes that was part of the problem.

However that is an aside, Paul goes on to say...

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:21


My point was that those who are perishing are the ones who did NOT believe the Gospel.
right ... they didn't believe and my point is that those who did not believe understood the gospel they just suppressed the truth in unrighteousness and thought the gospel was foolishness.




HeIsHere said:
It is NOT as some beleive that they could NOT believe the Gospel because it is foolishness and the only way they could believe the Gospel is be regenerated first/given special unique intervention and then they would have the ability to believe.
This interpretation occurs because the gospel is folded into what is stated in 1 Cor 2:14. However, 1 Cor 2:14 speaks of spiritual truths which go beyond the scope of the gospel ... even those who are born again but still babes in Christ ... or born again believers who are carnal ... are unable to know the deeper spiritual matters spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-16. Paul spoke of these matters with the believers who were more mature (1 Cor 2:6).




HeIsHere said:
reneweddaybyday said:
I believe faith is inherent within all descendants of Adam.
I am not understanding this idea, is this some supernatural substance or is the same kind of faith as expressed and exercised in a spouse or a friend for example?

Can you clarify?
I believe when God created, formed and made Adam and Eve, faith was included in the makeup of Adam and Eve.

When Adam and Eve fell, I believe faith is an attribute which remained within Adam and Eve ... just as intellectual capacity ... the senses ... the emotions ... the conscience ... although all of these attributes were affected by the fall.

I believe there was a spiritual death which occurred in Adam and Eve ... that which allowed Adam and Eve to have close fellowship with God ... that which governed and guided the faith, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience of Adam and Eve.

From what I have read in this thread and in many other threads available at CC, others believe that mankind has no faith with which to believe unless God gifts faith to them ... then they can believe the gospel ... and further, those who do not believe the gospel do not believe because God does not gift faith to them in order that they can believe.

I just do not see it that way because, first of all, I believe do not believe God withholds from mankind that which is needed in order to come to faith in the gospel; and secondly, I see unbelievers believe stuff all the time ... they believe truth as well as lies ... natural man believes murder is wrong, stealing is wrong (which is truth) ... atheists believe the lie that there is no God (not true) ... pagans believe the lie that there are many gods (not true).

It is not faith which saves ... it is the Object of faith Who saves those who believe the gospel of Christ when presented. The more lies we believe, the worse off we are. The more truth we believe, the better off we are.

How many times did someone speak to you of the truths in God's Word? Each time we believe the truth of God's Word, I believe God works within and increases our faith. And by increase, I don't mean we get more and more faith ... I believe God strengthens the faith we have so that we are either strong in faith or weak in faith, depending on whether we believe truth or reject truth or believe lies.

At some point, the gospel of Christ is presented to us and we either believe and receive the blessing God promises or we suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence of not believing.


hope/pray this answers your question
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i look at it like everyone is bound to death and hell because of our sins no exception left .
right ... all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.




Pilgrimshope said:
And so we all need to hear the gospel first that god sent out from Jerusalem in order to be saved as a result of that . As if everyone’s lost until they accept Jesus and the gospel
right ... even if it were possible for any descendant of Adam to live their whole life without sinning, he or she would still need to believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe ... that's how I see it ... none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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Agree 100%



Yes I missed the word, that is important, lol



There were problems in the church and yes that was part of the problem.

However that is an aside, Paul goes on to say...

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:21


My point was that those who are perishing are the ones who did NOT believe the Gospel.

It is NOT as some beleive that they could NOT believe the Gospel because it is foolishness and the only way they could believe the Gospel is be regenerated first/given special unique intervention and then they would have the ability to believe.


Paul is not making this argument ^^^^ so I was just breaking your post down a bit more.



I am not understanding this idea, is this some supernatural substance or is the same kind of faith as expressed and exercised in a spouse or a friend for example?
:unsure:
Can you clarify?
One thing there is we actually need to accept the things Jesus taught believers to believe in the gospel and not just “ the cross “
 
right ... all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.





right ... even if it were possible for any descendant of Adam to live their whole life without sinning, he or she would still need to believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe ... that's how I see it ... none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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Yeah agreed nonone can be saved without Christ and no adult humans are without sin anyways we eventually sin in some ways through life . Children aren’t born sinful and condemned or anything though. But as we live because we know good and evil we eventually sin and become accountable for our sins because of temptation

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived,

it bringeth forth sin:

and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not that we’re born sinful and dead to god needing redemption it’s that we eventually use our freedom to sin knowingly and then become condemned by this

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s inevitable since a few hundred years before the gospel Daniel is the last man mentioned who’s own righteousness could deliver his own soul around 6-700 bc

But there were many saints accepted by God by thier own righteousness in the Old Testament and there were men of faith as well like Abraham.

we definately need Jesus that’s why we need to accept the gospel in order to be saved .

We have to believe the gospel as a whole the things Jesus preached many are essential to salvation. He makes a lot of promises to believers before he gave his life we need to hear and believe those things also.
 
It is mind-blowing how many Scriptures they contradict and outright deny. They boast in men. Just bizarre!

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1 Corinthians 3 v 19-21a, 1 Corinthians 1 v 19 ~ The wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” Therefore, stop boasting in men. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
It sure is

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

…Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 4-11‬ ‭
 
Yeah agreed nonone can be saved without Christ and no adult humans are without sin anyways we eventually sin in some ways through life . Children aren’t born sinful and condemned or anything though. But as we live because we know good and evil we eventually sin and become accountable for our sins because of temptation

“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived,

it bringeth forth sin:

and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not that we’re born sinful and dead to god needing redemption it’s that we eventually use our freedom to sin knowingly and then become condemned by this

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s inevitable since a few hundred years before the gospel Daniel is the last man mentioned who’s own righteousness could deliver his own soul around 6-700 bc

But there were many saints accepted by God by thier own righteousness in the Old Testament and there were men of faith as well like Abraham.

we definately need Jesus that’s why we need to accept the gospel in order to be saved .

We have to believe the gospel as a whole the things Jesus preached many are essential to salvation. He makes a lot of promises to believers before he gave his life we need to hear and believe those things also.
yes, I understand the need to believe all we can know and learn of the Lord Jesus Christ ... belief in the gospel whereby the unbeliever is brought to life through the power of God creating new life within the newly born again one is the first step in our walk with the Lord. God tells us the riches in Christ are unsearchable (Eph 3:8) ... we will never come to the end of all He is ... certainly not in this life and I believe in the everlasting life to follow ... He is that magnificent !!! ... how do you come to the end of that which is eternal ??? ... there's always more ...
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yes, I understand the need to believe all we can know and learn of the Lord Jesus Christ ... belief in the gospel whereby the unbeliever is brought to life through the power of God creating new life within the newly born again one is the first step in our walk with the Lord. God tells us the riches in Christ are unsearchable (Eph 3:8) ... we will never come to the end of all He is ... certainly not in this life and I believe in the everlasting life to follow ... He is that magnificent !!! ... how do you come to the end of that which is eternal ??? ... there's always more ...
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Amen

“For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:9-12‬ ‭

But look what believing the gospel does let us know

“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel truly is the power of god to save us lost sinners… until we’re found
 
John 3 verse 27~ “A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.”
first verse in your panel ... this verse is not speaking of salvation. The verse is speaking of the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ ... the disciples of John Baptist asked John about the Lord Jesus Christ and His ministry:

John 3:

25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

John's ministry was foretold by his father, Zacharias (Luke 1:17), and John was faithful to his ministry. In vs 30 John said "He must increase but I [John] must decrease" ... John was a wonderful, faithful believer who fulfilled ministry until he was beheaded by Herod ...

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first verse in your panel ... this verse is not speaking of salvation.
Nothing is nothing... except to those who pervert the Word of God. Paul says such people are conceited and understand nothing.

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1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 
Amen

“For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:9-12‬ ‭

But look what believing the gospel does let us know

“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel truly is the power of god to save us lost sinners… until we’re found
The gospel is the power of salvation for those who believe. That last part gets left off so often over
and over again by free willing folks, even after being corrected multiple times. I am glad you agree
it is Jesus Who gives us understanding. And that it is Him Who makes us free... not some philosophically
based self-exalting precept erroneously raised to the level of Bible doctrine, as if it were.
 
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights,
who does not change like shifting shadows.
People need to learn how to harmonize verses.
Otherwise we are left being told salvation is not a gift from God, which is pretty inane.
 
the point is the Greeks understood the message of the cross ... it was foolishness to them, but they understood the message. They just believed that it was foolishness that a crucified Jewish man could rise from the dead, take away sins, and save mankind. Look at what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Nice work.

It's not a difficult message to understand. Nor is Psalm2 - which Paul was pointing Jews and Gentiles to - a difficult message to understand in regard to who and what YHWH's Annointed/Christ and King is. Nor is it difficult to understand that the God all mankind has knowledge of according to Rom1 is called "YHWH".

The Greeks had simply grown up in a culture with a very intellectualized alternate reality. The learned were faced with Jews telling them the resurrected "Jewish man" (as you've said) was the Logos their heroes had intellectualized, and the unknown Creator God of the many gods they worshipped. Interestingly Paul takes them back to creation and judgement by this resurrected Judge which is right out of Rom1 - creation and judgment - which Rom1 instructs all people inherently know and accept or reject.

Thus, it's interesting that teachings like this show us the approach to the Greeks was really about creation and the knowledge God has made inherent in mankind re: His existence, divinity and power.

None of this was or is difficult to understand. It's simply choosing to believe in reality/Truth vs. alternate manufactured realities.

Good post!
 
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Acts 17 v 26-27 ~ From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. :)
 
Unbelievers are sitting in church pews because they see the eternal power and Godhead revealed in nature ... or they hear something about God ... and want to know more. Hopefully unbelievers are sitting in church pews where the gospel of Christ is accurately taught and the pastor points to the Lord Jesus Christ ... but seeing the state of churches these days ???

I've told this before, but I had an encounter with a young father and as I recall, his 9-year-old son. God was soon brought into the discussion. The boy enthusiastically told me how much he hoped he was one of the "elect". I looked at him and his dad and said something simple and the dad immediately understood I was not Reformed. He politely ended the conversation and took leave.

As you say about the state of churches these days and accurate teaching about the Gospel of Jesus Christ... And I'm sure what you (and I) have in mind is well beyond this example.
 
The next couple of posts are going to deal with the huge pink elephant in the room no FWer wants to deal with: The Sovereignty of God which they pejoratively rephrase into "Determinism". In fact, this big , beautiful, fat elephant has a twin; for not only does Special Revelation teach that God is in total control of his creation (including we mere mortals) but Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it) strongly affirms this truth as well. So, buckle up, FWers, and try not to have too many cows.

"Determinism" From the Perspective of Special Revelation


Prov 16:1
1 To man belong the plans of the heart,
but from the LORD comes the reply of the tongue.

NIV

Prov 16:9
9 In his heart a man plans his course,
but the LORD determines [or directs] his steps.

NIV

Prov 16:33
33 The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the LORD.

NIV

Prov 19:21
21 Many are the plans in a man's heart,
but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.

NIV

Prov 20:24
24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD.
How then can anyone understand his own way?

NIV

Prov 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD;
he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.

NIV

Prov 21:30
30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan
that can succeed against the LORD.

NIV

Jer 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.

NIV

Isa 46:10
10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.

NIV

Dan 5:23
23 Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven. You had the goblets from his temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand.
But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways.[/i]
NIV

Acts 2:22-23
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

ESV

Acts 4:23-28
23 On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25 You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:

"'Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against his Anointed One.'

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
NIV

Rom 9:14-18
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

NIV

The first thing to understand is that man forfeited his freedom from sin when the Federal Head of the human race fell. Now mankind is in bondage to its sin nature which is why man cannot not sin. Man is a prisoner of his sinful nature and in dire need of divine rescuing.

Secondly, God's will is indeed done here on earth as it is in heaven; for if it wasn't this earth would literally be a living hell. God must restrain evil and often must permit evil, as well, for the purpose of serving a greater good. (See the account of Joseph in the OT, cf. Gen 50:19-20 and Jesus' death in the NT, cf. Act 4:23-28). God's hand was actively working in both their lives. God must work through all the evil in this world to achieve his redemptive goal for mankind and to bring an end to this corrupt age. And God's dual eternal purpose for this age is to save all His elect sheep through His Good Shepherd (Jn 6:37-40) and to put all the Son's enemies under his feet (Ps 110:1-2); and in both cases the Father will be glorified (Php 2:9-11).

The third thing to remember is that a person's life is NOT his own. Man naturally thinks it is. Man thinks he's pretty much an autonomous being who can do as he pleases. But the the biblical fact of the matter is that God owns every square inch of this universe and everything and EVERYONE in it! The Potter truly has every right to do as He wills with his clay pots (Rom 9:15-24). And all the vain, empty, fallible, finite, carnal reasoning and complaints to the contrary aren't going to change these facts. Such superficial reasoning should not be our authority for proper understanding of God's Word.

In the next post, we'll look at a component to God's physical creation to see how it governs every aspect of our lives.
 
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"Determinism" from the Perspective of Natural Revelation (Pt 2)

To me the most mysterious, abstract, curious and fascinating part of God's physical creation is the creation of Time which ironically is intangible and invisible. The question that I pose re this baffling wonder we call "time" is this: Is Man the Master of Time or is Man a Servant of Time? Perhaps a big clue as to the correct answer is in the old adage we're all familiar with: "Time and tide wait for no man." (Author of this quote is uncertain but some historians attribute it to St. Marher around 1225.) Or how many of us have thought throughout our lives the importance of being at the right place at the right time? Or how valuable time is, e.g. "Time is money", etc., etc..

Another huge clue is found in the central passage in scripture about this component of creation (Eccl 3:1-8). To save space I won't quote the entire passage but will make a simple observation: There are 14 pairs of time activities in this passage and the very first one states: "A time to be born and a time to die..." (v.2). Neither of these events involve man's will. God in eternity determined our time of birth and the exact number of our days. The rest of the passage covers activities in life that every human being experiences in between birth and death. And these events or activities can be expected or unexpected. But even in situations involving the former we ultimately don't control Time. We do not set the time or seasons for planting and harvesting, do we? Nor do we set the time for the raining seasons. We must submit to the "will" of Time...if we want to eat.

Therefore, Time has the First and the Last word in man's life; it is the Beginning and the End of man's life (v.2). Likewise, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End (Rev 22:13).

Another very important truth that we should not miss in this passage is that Time not only dictates to us WHEN things will occur but WHAT will occur.

But there's even more evidence about man's limitations regarding Time. None of us knows the Future (Eccl 7:14; 8:7; Jas 4:14), therefore, ultimately we have no control over what the Future will bring to any us. Nor do we have any power whatsoever to change, alter or modify the Past. What has been done has been done, and there's not a thing we can do to undo the activities of our Past. But one of the big values to the the Past is that it serves as a teacher for us so that we might learn from both our mistakes and our successes going forward.

Having said all that does not mean that man shouldn't or can't make any effort to manage his Time to the best of his ability, which of course can only be done through the very small window of Time we call the Present, i.e. "now" or "today". Furthermore, time "management" or "stewardship" is a biblical concept (Eph 5:16; Col 4:5). But even so...in the final analysis mankind functions in this world at the mercy of Time through which God soverignly brings his providence to bear upon our individual lives. And the following passage affirms this truth:

Eccl 8:5-8
5 Whoever obeys his command will come to no harm,
and the wise heart will know the proper time and procedure.
6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter,
though a man's misery weighs heavily upon him.

7 Since no man knows the future,
who can tell him what is to come?
8 No man has power over the wind to contain it;
so no one has power over the day of his death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,

so wickedness will not release those who practice it.
NIV

This is a profoundly instructive passage. First of all, the "wise [God-fearing, pious] heart" will know the proper time and procedure for every matter. But fools (wicked)? Not so much.

It almost seems that Solomon was laboring hard to drive home the singular point of man's powerlessness. And this passage alone destroys FWT since FWers will vehemently deny their helplessness! FWers think they have the only resource they ever need to empower themselves, i.e. the efficacy of their "freewill". But the above text says:

1. No man has the power (ability) to know the future.
2. No man has the power over the wind to contain it (cf. Jn 3:8).
3. No man has the power over the day of his death.
4. No man is discharged in time of war, nor does he have the power (authority) to discharge himself.
5. Any man who practices wickedness (being personified here) implicitly has no power to release himself from it.

Therefore, all unregenerate practitioners of evil will not and cannot know "the proper time and procedure" for repenting of their sins and believing in Christ. They cannot understand that TODAY is the acceptable time of the Lord (Heb 3:7; 4:7). Eccl 3:8d proves beyond any shadow of doubt the absolute necessity and indispensability God's gift of a godly disposition of heart known as the Fear of the Lord (Jer 32:38-41) that compels God's elect to turn away from (shun, hate) evil (Job 28:28; Prov 3:7; 8:13).

The only being who has power over all these things and much more is God! And if a FWer denies that it's God alone who effectually breaks the dark, destructive, corrupting, enslaving, imprisoning power of sin (wickedness, evil), then he must also deny the other things over which man has no power (see 1 thru 4 above.) To be consistent, he must affirm that man does, after all, have the power to know the future, to contain the wind, over the day of his death, etc. And that man whose heart is full of evil and madness can nonetheless release himself from it in order to bear good fruit of repentance and faith; yet, it's only those who have received the gift of a "noble and good heart" (unilaterally promised under the New Covenant) who have this power hear the Word, retain it and persevere to bear good fruit (Lk 6:45; 8:15; Rom 7:18).

Then we have this final text that further affirms man's utter helplessness:

Eccl 9:11-12
11 I have seen something else under the sun:

The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.

12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:


As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

NIV

Here's a few brief but very important observations, since this post is already long.

1. "Time and Chance" are what happen to all mankind, proving man is not in control of what or when anything will happen. Man will indeed make his plans in terms of races run, battles fought, the resource of food, obtaining wealth or great learning -- but at the end of the day, man is subservient to "time and chance" -- Time being governed by God. While "chance" is not a biblicial concept, Solomon uses it here to emphasize man's ignorance and natural limitations. Looking at life from strictly a horizontal perspective (everything "under the sun"), Solomon could liken the unknown and unknowable to "chance". And it would greatly behoove everyone to remember that Man is from below; God is from above. Man is under the sun (and the Son); God rules from above the highest heavens.

2. We should not miss the analogy Solomon makes between trapped animals and equally trapped mankind! Just as animals are powerless to free themselves from their traps or snares and require rescuing by an outside source, likewise so is fallen, helpless (Rom 5:6) mankind hopelessly trapped by evil times and cannot escape unless God graciously rescues them (Col 1:13; 1Thes 1:10, etc.). While a trapped animal most certainly has a strong instinct/will for survival to escape from it predicament, it nonetheless has NO POWER to do so! So man's hearts who are filled to the brim with evil and who are surrounded by an external evil environment is powerless to break free from his internal and external entrapment! To deny this truth, one would need to deny what Solomon said about trapped animals! It's no wonder at all that it's written that the Lord gives sight to the blind and sets prisoners free (Ps 146:7-8; 107:14; 142:7; Isa 61:1; Zech 9:11-12; Lk 4:18; Jn 8:36, etc.)

To summarize, then, we have seen that both Special and Natural Revelation bear witness to the fact that man's way truly is not in himself. That while man plans many things in his heart, at the end of the day it's the Lord's purpose that prevails (Prov 19:21.). Even from the very beginning, we are told in the creation account that God created the celestial bodies to govern times and seasons (Gen 1:14-18)-- times and seasons within which mankind exists. And so by extension man is governed by Time itself. Time is everyone's Master and we're all its Servants. We are slaves to our clocks, watches, calendars, itineraries, day planners, etc. from which we set our personal schedules. And guess what, FWers: Time plays "favorites"; for it does not treat all mankind the same -- not by a long shot! Life is so unfair, isn't it? We mere mortals are at the mercy of Time and Chance, just as we're at the mercy of God's love, compassion and grace.

One final thought: Sadly...very sadly many here cannot honestly say they share the Psalmist's sentiments in this text:

Ps 31:14-15a
14 But I trust in you, O LORD;
I say, "You are my God."

15 My times are in your hands...
NIV

But as for me and my household, we can heartily say, Alleluia and Amen and Praise the Lord!! Our times (lives) could not possibly be in better hands.
 
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This interpretation occurs because the gospel is folded into what is stated in 1 Cor 2:14. However, 1 Cor 2:14 speaks of spiritual truths which go beyond the scope of the gospel

Yes agree this has been repeated often to the "inability" clan many times over many years.

I believe when God created, formed and made Adam and Eve, faith was included in the makeup of Adam and Eve.

When Adam and Eve fell, I believe faith is an attribute which remained within Adam and Eve ... just as intellectual capacity ... the senses ... the emotions ... the conscience ... although all of these attributes were affected by the fall.

I believe there was a spiritual death which occurred in Adam and Eve ... that which allowed Adam and Eve to have close fellowship with God ... that which governed and guided the faith, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience of Adam and Eve.

But if we simply understand that faith is closely tied to the concept of "trust in" and the call and the condition is clearly set out by God throughout scripture we can see Augustine clearly overstepped in his view of fallen nature and St. Thomas Aquinas by far had the better understanding of scripture and the effect of the fall on mankind.

Thank you for this elaboration.

Correct, however the "inability group" follow the philosophy of Augustine via their local pastor so that a person's will, emotions and intellect are totally corrupted at the fall, affecting man in such a way he cannot respond positively from birth to the message in the Good News and therefore each person God has who is pre-selected will receive a special unique divine illumination/ regeneration so that they then can believe. :rolleyes:

This of course is not taught in scripture.