Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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reneweddaybyday said:
Jesus told us the purpose ...

John 11:41-42 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

We have a tendency to read into Scripture something the Author of Scripture never intended ... then use what we "read into Scripture" as some sort of proof text to support a claim.

I believe Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead shortly before His crucifixion and resurrection ... when Jesus rose from the dead, they would remember that He had also raised Lazarus from the dead, so they knew He could do it – this would shore up their faith and they would believe God sent Him ... and they would not fall victim to the lying pharisees who bribed Roman soldiers to claim the disciples had come and taken Him (Matt 28:12-15).
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Amen

also

“And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:39-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Blain said:
These verses are not saying anything about being regenerated they are speaking of totally different things especially when understood in context what was the chapter about when you pulled these verses?

You cannot just take a verse out of context and try to make it say something it isn't.
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I think he’s making the point that they aren’t reborn before they accept the gospel but being reborn is a result of believing the gospel
 
Kroogz said:
@Cameron143 You need to understand that MANY think you would answer that way. So clear it up for us please.

Dad? Yes?

What must I do to be saved?

Tell us please.
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“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

believe and you shall be saved versus if you are already saved you shall believe
 
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Cameron143 said:
Belief is evidence of salvation. It means that the Spirit of God employing the word of God produced faith.
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Salvation is the result of belief

“preach the gospel anyones who’s already saved will believe it “


Thats not what it says it’s contrary and backwards it says “preach the gospel by one who believes shall be saved “


Salvation is a direct result of believing the gospel. The gospel is the power of god to save lost sinners
 
Blain said:
So what then does it have to do with partial regeneration?
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I don’t think it does Ive never heard of “ partial regeneration “ but also people state thinfs in different terms and I don’t really know what he meant by “ partial regeneration “ I was just saying I thought his point was

We aren’t born again and then we’ll believe but we believe and then are born again as a result
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
I don’t think it does Ive never heard of “ partial regeneration “ but also people state thinfs in different terms and I don’t really know what he meant by “ partial regeneration “ I was just saying I thought his point was

We aren’t born again and then we’ll believe but we believe and then are born again as a result
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Yeah I guess that the term is a little confusing there is no scriptural reference to it and the verses he supplied don't have to do with it either but he seems to think they do so I was just a little confused

But with that aside as far as the debate goes on free will I used to believe in free will but I just don't see it in scripture aside from a few instances where it may imply free wwill but not outright say or show it. We do see however the scriptures state how we are slaves to our own desires or slaves to Christ
 
Pilgrimshope said:
Salvation is the result of belief

“preach the gospel anyones who’s already saved will believe it “


Thats not what it says it’s contrary and backwards it says “preach the gospel by one who believes shall be saved “


Salvation is a direct result of believing the gospel. The gospel is the power of god to save lost sinners
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Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing comes from the word of God. So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation.
Word of God >>>hearing >>>faith.
Notice it doesn't say faith comes by hearing the word of God. Why is that? Because audibly hearing the word of God doesn't produce faith. This isn't hard to show. You yourself have shared the gospel plenty of times and many didn't come to faith.
Given this, what is biblical hearing that leads to faith. According to Romans 3:11, there are none that understand. Those who didn't believe when you shared the gospel didn't understand because faith is spiritual understanding. According to 1 Corinthians 2:13-14, the things the Spirit teaches are spiritual and the natural man cannot receive them.
When God saves an individual through faith, the Spirit both opens their understanding of spiritual things but changes their hearts that they will obey God...Ezekiel 36:26-27. We see this in Acts 2:37: when they heard this...understanding, they were pricked in their hearts...new nature given, they said...men and brethren, what shall we do?...the result of spiritual understanding and new nature affect the will of the new convert.
 
Blain said:
Yeah I guess that the term is a little confusing there is no scriptural reference to it and the verses he supplied don't have to do with it either but he seems to think they do so I was just a little confused

But with that aside as far as the debate goes on free will I used to believe in free will but I just don't see it in scripture aside from a few instances where it may imply free wwill but not outright say or show it. We do see however the scriptures state how we are slaves to our own desires or slaves to Christ
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Yeah I think a big issue is no one really has ever defined what someone’s “ will “ actually is and so how could we determine if it’s free ?

i think if we disagree on what a persons will means then we’re bound to disagree whether it’s “ free “ or not discussions like this really don’t ever go anywhere . I think in part because we are all thinking differently about terms like “ will “

But certainly brother in Christ , I respect what you choose to believe about it and am not disparaging or trying to argue or anything like that
 
Cameron143 said:
Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing comes from the word of God. So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation.
Word of God >>>hearing >>>faith.
Notice it doesn't say faith comes by hearing the word of God. Why is that? Because audibly hearing the word of God doesn't produce faith. This isn't hard to show. You yourself have shared the gospel plenty of times and many didn't come to faith.
Given this, what is biblical hearing that leads to faith. According to Romans 3:11, there are none that understand. Those who didn't believe when you shared the gospel didn't understand because faith is spiritual understanding. According to 1 Corinthians 2:13-14, the things the Spirit teaches are spiritual and the natural man cannot receive them.
When God saves an individual through faith, the Spirit both opens their understanding of spiritual things but changes their hearts that they will obey God...Ezekiel 36:26-27. We see this in Acts 2:37: when they heard this...understanding, they were pricked in their hearts...new nature given, they said...men and brethren, what shall we do?...the result of spiritual understanding and new nature affect the will of the new convert.
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“Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing comes from the word of God. So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation. “

Right the gospel is his word that offers salvation

“So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation. “

Yes exactly the gospel he preached promising salvation to all who believe ….produces faith in them and then they walk by that faith the gospel produces that’s exactly what I’ve been saying. The gospel is the word of life that’s why believing it promises life

The gospel is the word of God promised throughout the Old Testament. There’s no hidden secret other word he’s going to speak to make anyone hear and have faith that’s what the gospel does

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ….But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Kroogz said:
@Cameron143 You need to understand that MANY think you would answer that way. So clear it up for us please.

Dad? Yes?

What must I do to be saved?

Tell us please.
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I've never been asked the question by my children. They were taught from an early age that salvation was of God, that I believed they were children of promise, and that God would come at some point in their lives and make Himself known.

I also shared story after story in the Bible where God did the same thing to many, many people. God came to Adam and Eve. He came to Noah. He came to Abraham. Jesus came to find His sheep. The disciples were instructed to go to people. And one day, he will come to you. Can't imagine a more encouraging message than that the God of all glory would seek and save them personally.
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
“Faith is the result of hearing, and hearing comes from the word of God. So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation. “

Right the gospel is his word that offers salvation

“So it is the word of God that produces faith. This is the power of God unto salvation. “

Yes exactly the gospel he preached promising salvation to all who believe ….produces faith in them and then they walk by that faith the gospel produces that’s exactly what I’ve been saying. The gospel is the word of life that’s why believing it promises life

The gospel is the word of God promised throughout the Old Testament. There’s no hidden secret other word he’s going to speak to make anyone hear and have faith that’s what the gospel does

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ….But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
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It is not the word of God that produces faith. The word of God produces hearing, and hearing produces faith.
 
Cameron143 said:
I've never been asked the question by my children. They were taught from an early age that salvation was of God, that I believed they were children of promise, and that God would come at some point in their lives and make Himself known.

I also shared story after story in the Bible where God did the same thing to many, many people. God came to Adam and Eve. He came to Noah. He came to Abraham. Jesus came to find His sheep. The disciples were instructed to go to people. And one day, he will come to you. Can't imagine a more encouraging message than that the God of all glory would seek and save them personally.
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So never a mention of the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for them. It does not go unnoticed that you folks leave the Lord Jesus Christ out of the equation pertaining to salvation......Show me the last post that any calvie/reformed theology person witnessed the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and His life, death and resurrection for sinners.


Dad? Yes?

What must I do to be saved?

The Lord Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again for you son. He simply asks that you trust/believe in Him for your salvation. You will not get magically saved by God. You Need to trust what the Lord Jesus Christ did for you.
 
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Kroogz said:
So never a mention of the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for them. It does not go unnoticed that you folks leave the Lord Jesus Christ out of the equation pertaining to salvation......Show me the last post that any calvie/reformed theology person witnessed the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and His life, death and resurrection for sinners.


Dad? Yes?

What must I do to be saved?

The Lord Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again for you son. He simply asks that you trust/believe in Him for your salvation. You will not get magically saved by God. You Need to trust what the Lord Jesus Christ did for you.
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Of course I've shared about Christ. You asked me how I would answer a question that never was asked. Why do you believe it wasn't asked? Because they already know. And it wouldn't have mattered how I answered. You would find fault.
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
Pretty bizarre thought
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Does it say faith comes by the word of God. It doesn't. It says faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Word of God produces hearing. Hearing produces faith.
The way you understand it is hearing the word of God produces faith. That's not what it says.
 
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