Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Non-free willers would probably reword it to read more like this...

... and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Did I make you believe this?"

I'm sure that Satan is thrilled when the super-determinists proclaim a Salvation that is both unavailable and unobtainable by means of the preaching of the gospel message.

And the bonus for Satan: proclaiming fatalistic Calvinism makes Jesus out to be a fraud and a liar.

 

[Blain]

You keep conflating spiritual death with physical death.

We were spiritually dead before salvation.

We could hear, see, etc... when the Holy Spirit enabled us (grace) to be as someone with limited regeneration as far as our perception of Jesus goes.

Limited regeneration, what do you mean by that?

 

[Genez]

Right. It's manifest in them. Nothing about hearing there. The truth about God is evident both through creation and conscience, but nothing there about knowing God by hearing.

By perceiving!

Your literalism makes impossible for deaf people to be saved!

 

[Genez]

I'm sure that Satan is thrilled when the super-determinists proclaim a Salvation that is both unavailable and unobtainable by means of the preaching of the gospel message.

And the bonus for Satan: proclaiming fatalistic Calvinism makes Jesus out to be a fraud and a liar.

The fact that we end up understanding that leaves them to be without excuse.

 

[Genez]

Limited regeneration, what do you mean by that?

Regenerated by the Holy Spirit temporarily taking up the slack for our lack of having yet a human spirit.
And, what we will be responsible for deciding about while God is drawing us to the Cross, will be limited
to just that.

After one chooses to accept the Cross, THEN regeneration takes place.

 

[Cameron143]

You keep conflating spiritual death with physical death.

We were spiritually dead before salvation.

We could hear, see, etc... when the Holy Spirit enabled us (grace) to be as someone with limited regeneration as far as our perception of Jesus goes.

Where is limited regeneration spoken of in scripture?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Except grace doesn't simply allow hearing; it saves. And half the people agreeing with you don't acknowledge that the natural man is dead or that God gives hearing.

“the natural man is dead”

If they were already dead why is god always warning them that if they sin they will die ?

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4

 

[Blain]

Regenerated by the Holy Spirit temporarily taking up the slack for our lack of having yet a human spirit.
And, what we will be responsible for deciding about while God is drawing us to the Cross, will be limited
to just that.

After one chooses to accept the Cross, THEN regeneration takes place.

Hmm... so you are talking about the drawing to Christ then? Because I don't believe one can be limited in regeneration at least not anywhere have I found in this in scripture you either are or you aren't.

 

[Cameron143]

“the natural man is dead”

If they were already dead why is god always warning them that if they sin they will die ?

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4

Ephesians 2:1. Spiritually dead.

 

[Magenta]

So I have a question it is spoken in scripture that faith comes from hearing the word
of God now my question is this is it by our will we hear the word of God or his?

Jonah comes to mind.

 

[sawdust]

Limited regeneration, what do you mean by that?

@Genez can correct me if his understanding is different, but I think he means.. The Holy Spirit stands in the place of our human spirit, sort of like a surrogate, so we can connect to God and understand the issue of Christ and the Cross.

 

[Blain]

Jonah comes to mind.

Yes that is a good example, sorry I was gone I needed some sleep but wow this thread really took off while I was asleep lol

 

[cv5]

Romans 1:19
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

God demonstrated the 10 plagues to:
-the entire nation Israel
-the entire nation Egypt
-the nation Edom
-the nation Ammon
-Moab
-Midian
-Assyria
-Babylon
-the whole land of Canaan
-the Amorites
-Tyre

Everybody knew Who the True God is back then. And everybody knows Who the True God is today.

[Jos 2:9-11 KJV]
9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

11 And as soon as we had heard [these things], our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he [is] God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

 

[Blain]

@Genez can correct me if his understanding is different, but I think he means.. The Holy Spirit stands in the place of our human spirit, sort of like a surrogate, so we can connect to God and understand the issue of Christ and the Cross.

That could be what he meant I assumed he meant the drawing to Christ that happens before one is actually saved

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:1. Spiritually dead.

Ephesians 2 v 1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

 

[Magenta]

Yes that is a good example, sorry I was gone I needed some sleep but wow this thread really took off while I was asleep lol

According to what they say, the FWers must have called reinforcements in.

 

[Cameron143]

By perceiving!

Your literalism makes impossible for deaf people to be saved!

More gobbledygook.

 

[sawdust]

God demonstrated the 10 plagues to:
-the entire nation Israel
-the entire nation Egypt
-the nation Edom
-the nation Ammon
-Moab
-Midian
-Assyria
-Babylon
-the whole land of Canaan
-the Amorites
-Tyre

Everybody knew Who the True God is back then. And everybody knows Who the True God is today.

[Jos 2:9-11 KJV]
9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

11 And as soon as we had heard [these things], our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he [is] God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

It's common knowledge the creation speaks to us but don't tell @Cameron143 because he can't hear it and we wouldn't want him to feel left out.

 

[Genez]

Where is limited regeneration spoken of in scripture?

Grace!!!!!!!!! Its is God's intervention with man, to make what is impossible for man, yet required by God... to accomplish.


2 Corinthians 12:8-9

Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me."

God did not tell Paul to be a man about it, and gut it out, and be strong!
Instead?
God provided the power needed that Paul did not possess!

Likewise...

When hearing the Gospel?
Being spiritually dead, we need spiritual POWER given to us to know what is needed to know to be saved.

 

[Genez]

@Genez can correct me if his understanding is different, but I think he means.. The Holy Spirit stands in the place of our human spirit, sort of like a surrogate, so we can connect to God and understand the issue of Christ and the Cross.

Exactly!@!!!!!!!