Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Cameron143 said:
Lazarus is dead 4 days and residing in a tomb. Jesus raises him from the dead by calling him forth. Was Lazarus given life, heard the words of Jesus, and came forth, or, did he hear the words, come to life, and come forth?
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Which way do you see it?
 
sawdust said:
But it can go that far (hearing) and no further, Romans 1 proves that. As long as you keep insisting that grace must save and only save, you will never understand what is being said to you.
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I didn't say grace will only save. For someone who gets upset when they believe someone has taken their words out of context, I would think you would be a little more careful.
 
James4s.png

From James 4~ God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I didn't say grace will only save. For someone who gets upset when they believe someone has taken their words out of context, I would think you would be a little more careful.
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It is exactly what you said.

Quote: "Except grace doesn't simply allow hearing; it saves."

Romans 1 shows the truth can be heard, understood and rejected without salvation. You want to try and tell us now that the Romans 1 type didn't really hear? So grace does simply allow for hearing without salvation.

If you really think you are saying something different then try explaining your meaning for once.
 
Rufus said:
You FWers project a lot, don't you? If anyone has a superiority complex on steroids it you and you comrades. You're totally superior to God. You can cure your own blindness. You can raise yourself from the dead. You have the power to change your own immutable nature, etc. You guys fancy yourselves as real superheroes, don't you? :rolleyes:
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Now we are communists too. Which insult will they think of next for thier fellow Christians who dont think like them? They beat heritic and lover of darkness till it went beyond the proverbial dead horse. Im thinking do do head.
 
sawdust said:
It is exactly what you said.

Quote: "Except grace doesn't simply allow hearing; it saves."

Romans 1 shows the truth can be heard, understood and rejected without salvation. You want to try and tell us now that the Romans 1 type didn't really hear? So grace does simply allow for hearing without salvation.

If you really think you are saying something different then try explaining your meaning for once.
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What part of Romans 1 are you referring to?
 
sawdust said:
Romans 1:19
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
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Right. It's manifest in them. Nothing about hearing there. The truth about God is evident both through creation and conscience, but nothing there about knowing God by hearing.
 
Rufus said:
Is that what God did with Israel when he rescued them from Pharaoh: He simply made their escape possible? Or what about Eve, when God saved her: He simply gave her the opportunity to save herself -- to cooperate with his offer of salvation? Or what about Jesus when he healed the blind man at birth -- and he wasn't even a believer when Jesus first encountered him. That's your version of God -- a mere Potential Savior -- certainly not the bible's version.
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You are way too hung up upon this 'niche' concept that is used to make your sect feel special and enlightened.

Get over it!

There are thousands of doctrines that can be learned from the Bible if you would just accept what you believe, and move on to maturity in Christ. What you are doing is like walking into a church perpetually filled with baby Christians.

Grow up already!
As long as Christians are saved?
What difference does it make if some believe they freely chose to believe?
They believe!
That's all that matters.

Move into maturity....

.......
 
Cameron143 said:
So the word of God spoken by Jesus gave life to Lazarus?
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Yeah like the gospel he already sent forth gives life to those who accept it and believe.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be ( not already is regardless ) damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is the word of God that gives life
 
Cameron143 said:
So the word of God spoken by Jesus gave life to Lazarus?
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You keep conflating spiritual death with physical death.

We were spiritually dead before salvation.

We could hear, see, etc... when the Holy Spirit enabled us (grace) to be as someone with limited regeneration as far as our perception of Jesus goes.
 
So I have a question it is spoken in scripture that faith comes from hearing the word of God now my question is this is it by our will we hear the word of God or his?
 
Cameron143 said:
It doesn't really matter how they answer. If dead people can't hear, but suddenly do, the hearing couldn't have come from themselves. Neither can it simply mean audible hearing, as dead people can't audibly hear.
If they say life must first be imparted, then they have life granted before hearing can lead to faith.
This is why no one has answered.
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The Gospel is not dealing with spiritual issues.
It does not require we first grasp the Trinity.
As a Jew, I had no idea that Jesus was God when I believed.
I just believed he was a beautiful man who loved God so much,
that he wanted us to know the same love he as.
He was willing to die on the Cross to take our punishment.


The Gospel deals with human issues that all humans can understand.
 
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