God is the First Cause behind all grace, whether it be grace he actively bestows or grace he withdraws or withholds. In the case of the former God is due all the credit. In the case of the latter, the immediate/efficient cause of human will is ultimately responsible since God simply leaves fallen man in his immutable, hopeless and helpless condition to live his life in accordance with his sinful nature.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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God is the First Cause behind all grace, whether it be grace he actively bestows or grace he withdraws or withholds. In the case of the former God is due all the credit. In the case of the latter, the immediate/efficient cause of human will is ultimately responsible since God simply leaves fallen man in his immutable, hopeless and helpless condition to live his life in accordance with his sinful nature.
if these guys hadn't "listened" they might not have been able to present their gifts to the Lord Jesus Christ ...
Matthew 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
I believe the gospel is presented in the heavens (the heavens declare the glory of God) and God arranged that so mankind would never be without the gospel. I believe the patriarchs taught the truth about Messiah by taking their children outside to learn from the night sky.
I also believe what we currently call "astrology" is a counterfeit to this truth ... and the counterfeit began back in Gen 11 with the Tower of Babel.
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I disagree with you about the theme of Romans. I believe it is about the revelation of God's righteousness through faith in Christ. You always seem to consider the Bible and its connection to man rather than what it reveals about God.
You say God knew who would love Him. Of course. We only love Him in response to His love.
I doubt we disagree on what foreknowledge is, but disagree on what the foreknowledge is referring to.
Another bald-faced lie! Where does it say what you allege in Rom 8:28-30? None of my translations say that. Yet, you pride yourself as being a faithful and honest exegetical interpreter, don't you?
You have a sickness. Are you on meds? Pet your cats and relax before you post.
Where does it say what specifically?
What exactly are you referring to?
I don't "pride myself". I explain my background and training and offer to go through Scripture word by word with anybody who will knowledgeably participate in doing the same. At that level I'm open to being shown how I may be wrong in an interpretation.
It's your side that doesn't believe the Spirit moves until after belief. I believe He is working in conjunction with the word of God to produce the faith that leads to belief.
No, it's the TULIP people who put the cart before the horse. Salvation before the Gospel, belief before repentance, election before salvation.
The Election of Israel was on account of the patriarchs not their individual salvation. We are elected on the basis of Christ which is why the scripture says we are chosen in Him. You have to meet God's requirement before election and His requirement for the Church is to believe in the Son (who is the Gospel) just as being in the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was the requirement for Israel's election.
Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
In fact the FWer teaches that they choose to believe from their incurably wicked heart.
THEN their heart is circumcised.
I doubt it very much. You invite criticism but then double down when it is offered.
I'm so glad I have a really top quality screwdriver set. I always need it to untwist what you do to my words.
Either they found grace in the eyes of the Lord like Noah and heard the word of the Lord and believed like Abraham, or they did not. Salvation has always been by grace through faith.
yep, we're "morons"
1 Corinthians 1:26-27 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things [Greek = mōros = moron] of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty
mōros is the root word for the English "moron" [heh]
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Right . Christ is the elect one the o ly one worthy in whom the father is well pleased he alone is the hier of God. Then you have the adoption of believers in him they weren’t always there but they are adopted through the son because they accepted him when the gospel cameyes!!! the Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect ... those who believe the gospel of Christ become elect in Him when the gospel is believed and they are born again ... God chose the Elect before the foundation of the world and the believing ones are holy and blameless before Him in Christ. Christ clothes us in righteousness so we may enter into the presence of God ... the throne of grace where we obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ cannot enter into the presence of God
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They become the hiers in him the only begotten
“For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”
Romans 8:15-17 KJV
Humanity became unacceptable to God none of us were worthy then you have Christ Jesus who is worthy and chosen and foreordained all who believe are included with him
In Christ is where every promise is kept to Abraham’s children of faith
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
John 1:12-13 KJV
they were given that power by the son they didn’t have it already from the beginning
You forget, man didn't get himself into that state which is why God comes to all of us in grace and truth. We all suffered because of one man's decision, we are all set free by one man's decision. Positionally, anyone can come to Christ, experientially only those who believe will be saved. Grace enables the will to be free of the bondage of sin so that when the truth is presented we can make our own decision for or against. God is patient and kind, He gives us time to do that. He is sorting the wheat from the chaff. The difference between us and wheat is, we have a will of our own. We are not made good or evil we become that way based on our own responses to God's word.
Understanding Gospel truth is not difficult because it has moral capacity as well. The spiritual aspect of the Gospel is not truly understood until after we are saved but understanding we have done wrong and that there is a penalty to pay and Christ paid that penalty for us can be understood by "morons". That's how we all got saved in the first place.
The fact they make excuses to not believe shows they understand what is being presented so you are without excuse and not all men react as the Romans 1 type, if they did, no-one would be saved.
But man is morally corrupt -- from the top of his head to the soles of his feet (Isaiah 1)! So understanding the Gospel is impossible because men naturally love the Darkness because their deeds are evil. And the Darkness cannot comprehend the truth! And without God graciously and effectively instilling the Fear of Himself into people's hearts their love for that darkness will NEVER change. The Fear of the Lord is the mechanism by which men turn away from evil, shun evil, hate evil, etc. The Fear of the Lord is one the primary mechanisms for CHANGE. Another major mechanism for CHANGE is God's circumcision of the heart.
Fallen man is as immutable as God is. And only God can fix that!
I do not believe this ...
God has revealed Himself in creation ... that is God making the first move. He can keep Himself hidden if / when He wants to.
God has given us the Scriptures ... that is God making the first move.
God inspires faithful believers to speak His Word to the world ... that is God making the first move.
God does not always present Himself like He did to Paul on the road to Damascus. God uses a still small voice and we either tune in or tune out.
yes ... from Genesis to current time to future.
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Didn’t say you did just adding to the thought . Of being saved through faith
“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
Hebrews 11:7 KJV
having faith didn’t remove the necessaty for his actions according to what god told him having faith was shown by those actions and he was saved
Man did indeed get himself into that condition. Are you denying that Adam is the federal head of the human race? Or are you implying God screwed up by making Adam the representative of all mankind?