Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

lrs68 said:


Unless you are hiding under a rock and hide from using radio, television, internet there's literally shows, podcasts, talk forums where thousands claim to have been in church for much of their lives hearing the Gospel preached and today proclaiming their DISBELIEF and REJECTION of God.

A couple of today's biggest scholars were Preachers and now AGNOSTIC.

So you either live in denial because many people have heard the Gospel preached and remain in unbelief!

And why are you surprised at this? Don't you know that hearing is one thing and understanding is quite another!

I hear things all the time that I don't understand -- for example when two or more people are talking in a foreign tongue, I outwardly hear them speaking, but I don't understand a word. Read Matthew 13 someday. Even Jesus taught that both are necessary -- hearing and understanding!

 

[Magenta]

Are you a total stranger to God's effectual power in your life? You have never existentially experienced his awesome grace within your heart, mind and soul?

According to what some of these free willers have said they have not experienced God in the way you describe (in the depths of their soul) ... they also make plain that it is through their own wisdom in the flesh that they came to know Him and decided to believe in Him, which of course again (once again!!!!!!) flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches... But that error of theirs is central to their false doctrine.

 

[Magenta]

And why are you surprised at this? Don't you know that hearing is one thing and understanding is quite another!

I hear things all the time that I don't understand -- for example when two or more people are talking in a foreign tongue, I outwardly hear them speaking, but I don't understand a word. Read Matthew 13 someday. Even Jesus taught that both are necessary -- hearing and understanding!

So true that hearing must encompass comprehension has been said many times...

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="cv5, post: 5576724, member: 277646"]What did you think? That God was a cosmic tyrant stuffing the gospel down the throat of everyone that finds it repulsive?
And then the lobotomy and shotgun wedding?

Mat 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Mar 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Luk 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. [/QUOTE]

Now you're catching on! This is why God gives his grace only to the humble. Everyone else He leaves to the wonders of their sinful nature whereby they can freely sin.

 

[lrs68]

No, you didn't. You left out the cause part and only included the effect part

If I include the entire conversation as which is what I did then cause was included. YOU just don't like the cause Jesus uses in those Verses.

 

[lrs68]

Better get the real ESV, for mine doesn't read the way you say!

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
ESV

Still is what I presented [to everyone who believes]

 

[rogerg]

According to what some of these free willers have said they have not experienced God in the way you describe (in the depths of their soul) ... they also make plain that it is through their own wisdom in the flesh that they came to know Him and decided to believe in Him, which of course again once again flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches... But that error of theirs is central to their false doctrine.

I like what @Jordon posted - that if only Christ sets us free, without Christ, the unsaved aren't free and therefore without free-will

 

[Rufus]

According to what some of these free willers have said they have not experienced God in the way you describe (in the depths of their soul) ... they also make plain that it is through their own wisdom in the flesh that they came to know Him and decided to believe in Him, which of course again (once again!!!!!!) flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches... But that error of theirs is central to their false doctrine.

This because salvation to FWers is purely a man-made natural act of their own efficacious "freewill". They adamantly deny the true supernatural nature of God's saving grace. They have a form of godliness but they actually deny God's efficacious, supernatural power (2Tim 3:5).

 

[lrs68]

I have not read anyone participating in this thread say they found God by themselves.

I only read they accepted the Gift that God offered to them. That they were not kidnapped, forced like victims to accept, but rejoiced to accept the Precious Gift of Salvation from God Who gave it to them.

 

[Rufus]

Still is what I presented [to everyone who believes]

But you said to everyone who "chooses to believe", which the text does not say. Eisegesis comes so easy and natural to you, you oblivious to using that method of interpretation constantly.

 

[Rufus]

Standardized super-determinist pseudo-philosophical hogwash.
Neither the hearers nor the deniers have any power to save themselves.
But God will give grace to those that are WILLING to RECEIVE the messengers and the message.

Standardized, super-man exalting, pseudo-philosophical hogwash! Give us chapter and verse on the drivel you just posted. My bible tells me God gives grace ONLY to the humble!

 

[Magenta]

I like what @Jordon posted - that if only Christ sets us free, without Christ, the unsaved aren't free and therefore without free-will

Some of us have been saying the very same thing for months...

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[Rufus]

the word "power" is translated from the Greek word dynamis which means strength, ability, power; inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature.

those who believe receive the blessing promised.

those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not cause the dynamis to not be dynamis. The dynamis remains inherent in the gospel of Christ whether one believes it or does not believe it.
.

So...divine power is power that inherently resides in the fallen nature all human beings? We all come into this world innately possessing this divine power, do we? Prove it from scripture.

 

[Magenta]

Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths. Praise God if Jesus has set you free!

 

[cv5]

Standardized, super-man exalting, pseudo-philosophical hogwash! Give us chapter and verse on the drivel you just posted. My bible tells me God gives grace ONLY to the humble!

Plagiarize much?

 

[cv5]

Now you're catching on! This is why God gives his grace only to the humble. Everyone else He leaves to the wonders of their sinful nature whereby they can freely sin.

Are you reading from a script?

 

[Rufus]

That "teaching" that takes place is not being told to not do something, and told to do something else.
It is a not a teacher-student arrangement.

My pastor taught Titus 2:11-12 to us from the Greek. He showed something that reading a translation for yourself would leave you without a clue.

That word translated "teaching' has a particular meaning.

It means to be taught a lesson by allowing someone to do something wrong.
To do something wrong so he would get hurt by doing it.
It is the hurting that teaches us to say "No!"

It is why we can see a wild generation growing up, and turning to marriage. Where before, everyone was wild with free sex.
They got terribly hurt from their sinning. Grace was there to give them the needed strength for the conviction to say "No!"

It is for all [humble] men. [Just] Not the elect [reprobates].

FTFY!

 

[Rufus]

Plagiarize much?

I thought you'd be tickled pink that I borrowed some of your words, since it would give you something else of which to boast.

 

[Rufus]

Are you reading from a script?

If by "script" you mean from the divinely inspired, inerrant, authoritative bible, then YES I am!

 

[lrs68]

But you said to everyone who "chooses to believe", which the text does not say. Eisegesis comes so easy and natural to you, you oblivious to using that method of interpretation constantly.

No one believes unless they truly are convinced that they are believing the truth. That is a choice because we ultimately convince ourselves in order to believe what we believe.

As a child you believed in Santa because you wanted to [choice].
As a child you believed in the Easter Bunny because you wanted to [choice].

No matter what we believe we ultimately believe because we want to [choice].

Those who believe in something they don't want to are brainwashed.

Rufus, are you brainwashed or do you believe in Jesus because you want to?