Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

Since you alluded to eternity, how is God not going to be YOUR "puppet master" in the eternal New Order wherein YOU will NOT be able to sin any longer!?

God isn’t a puppet master and never will be one. He’s given man a choice since the beginning and all throughout ….still does

but there is a “master of puppets “ in the world . He’s the one telling you folks you can’t choose good . Telling you guys you aren’t free from the dominion of sin . Telling you all those sinners just aren’t chosen god doesn’t allow them to believe , he’s the one telling you “ you are chosen and special don’t listen to the things Jesus and his apostles taught …. Just say grace and fid will work you like a puppet … but don’t actually ever think you need to obey what god said ….. that’s silly you aren’t capable of choosing between good and evil … you’ll never be judged for your deeds …

God will tell you if you keep his word you’ll know the truth and be set free .

God tells people “ my word is not beyond you it’s not hidden from you so you need to have someone bring it to you so you can obey it no it’s in your heart and mouth so you can obey it and live “

gods the same as he’s always been he’s never been a puppet master never will be …. He’s exactly like Jesus was in the gospel he’s a father a friend a brother a companion a healer a teacher a leader a savior he’s God almighty

abut he’s not a puppet master . he’s a creator and giver of life and freedom and knowledge and wisdom and guidance

 

[Rufus]

I am saying most of the Bible is written to the audience that was living when the Letters were written. Paul wrote NOTHING TO RUFUS OR LRS OR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD. He wrote them to the people alive in his day and time.

We are not first fruits but the remnants of the first fruits of Christianity.

Oh...so we can just discard the entire NT!? Most especially 2Tim 3:16, right!? In fact, going by your logic (if I dare call it that), we should toss out the OT too because that was written to the Old Covenant people of God.

But thanks for airing your utter disdain for Holy Writ... It's no wonder at all you FWers are such masters at eisegesis because in your heart of hearts you don't believe the eternal Word of God is relevant to us today -- so you just "freely" take liberties with scripture.

May God have mercy on your soul!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes I see it to.
I was wondering the same thing about it being detrimental.

Yeah it doesn’t seem like a fruitful use of time especially over the past six months it seems like to me anyways. Appreciate the discussion about the Bible however when it does occur

 

[Cameron143]

I was not part of that conversation and I am not going back to read it.

To me there is only issue that destroys the "R" system and that is >>>

sanctification (washing, cleansing the heart, part of salvation) cannot precede justification.

It's a yes or no question. You don't need previous input to answer it. Please answer.

 

[Rufus]

God isn’t a puppet master and never will be one. He’s given man a choice since the beginning and all throughout ….still does

but there is a “master of puppets “ in the world . He’s the one telling you folks you can’t choose good . Telling you guys you aren’t free from the dominion of sin . Telling you all those sinners just aren’t chosen god doesn’t allow them to believe , he’s the one telling you “ you are chosen and special don’t listen to the things Jesus and his apostles taught …. Just say grace and fid will work you like a puppet … but don’t actually ever think you need to obey what god said ….. that’s silly you aren’t capable of choosing between good and evil … you’ll never be judged for your deeds …

God will tell you if you keep his word you’ll know the truth and be set free .

God tells people “ my word is not beyond you it’s not hidden from you so you need to have someone bring it to you so you can obey it no it’s in your heart and mouth so you can obey it and live “

gods the same as he’s always been he’s never been a puppet master never will be …. He’s exactly like Jesus was in the gospel he’s a father a friend a brother a companion a healer a teacher a leader a savior he’s God almighty

abut he’s not a puppet master . he’s a creator and giver of life and freedom and knowledge and wisdom and guidance

So...you believe that the saints in the eternal New Order will be capable of sinning? Jesus really did not conquer sin and death, did He? Is this the Big Lie in scripture!? Sin and Death will always plague the saints in the visible kingdom?

 

[Jordon]

I have not looked into the king of Tyre for a while LOL but as to his nature, people are born naturally
inclined toward sin and under divine judgment due to their fallen nature, inherited from Adam.
This condition is a spiritual state of separation from God, characterized by a rejection of Him and
a desire to fulfill sinful passions. This is the human condition despite all the naysayers disputing
what God's Word says. Don't ask me why they hate what God's Word says. It is obvious that they do.
They'd rather believe man is not such a bad guy after all even though their own behaviour says otherwise.

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18

Only God is good when it comes to natural man.

It really is as simple as that.

But I do feel that promoting freedom in suffering a spiritual severance from God is bordering on absurd

I do have confusing thoughts over the matter,. Which mainly is to do with was there something spiritual about our nature in the first before there was a severance ?

Just on the bases of in order for our nature to have a spiritual severance from God is it possible the natural man did have a spiritual nature at first.

Well at least some kind of.spirual nature. Its all a bit confusing for me to be honest.

 

[Genez]

But you have a mortal lock for all time on the Finger of Fate Award.

The amazing thing about our salvation.
You can end up being a total loser in regard to getting all your concepts wrong (wood, hay, and stubble) ...
And will still be saved. Just no rewards.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​

revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been ​

built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss ​

but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

Your fleshly way of winning and thinking remains, demanding to be your savior.

Wood, hay, and straw.

It happens!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nothing. Just like the verse she shared had nothing to do with the verse I shared. So I ignored the verse and continued on with the point I was making.

Do you believe conviction means one is merely informed concerning truth, or that persuasion is included in as well?

“ conviction” needs the context of how it’s being used because could mean things from different perspectives

“ I was convicted of a crime “

“ I was convicted that it was the right thing to do “

“i hold deep convictions in my heart “

“the holy spirit convicts … of sin …because of unbelief “

it’s never about a term but usually about the term within the context it’s used always about how the term is being used when it’s being applied in the context of a sentance or message.

… but so your just ignoring each others verses and continuing on with the points your both making ? Because they aren’t relevant ?

 

[GWH]

Can we really exercise?

Working up the will is an exercise in futility.

 

[Genez]

She was drawn to Christ after being "enabled" to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.

The flesh forbids the soul the freedom to know the truth.

God with His powerhouse of Grace grabs the flesh and binds it up while God grants that soul a free hearing.

Without grace? No one.

 

[Cameron143]

“ conviction” needs the context of how it’s being used because could mean things from different perspectives

“ I was convicted of a crime “

“ I was convicted that it was the right thing to do “

“i hold deep convictions in my heart “

“the holy spirit convicts … of sin …because of unbelief “

it’s never about a term but usually about the term within the context it’s used always about how the term is being used when it’s being applied in the context of a sentance or message.

… but so your just ignoring each others verses and continuing on with the points your both making ? Because they aren’t relevant ?

So...conviction by the Holy Spirit? Does it entail an element or aspect of persuasion?

 

[Genez]

Nothing. Just like the verse she shared had nothing to do with the verse I shared. So I ignored the verse and continued on with the point I was making.

Do you believe conviction means one is merely informed concerning truth, or that persuasion is included in as well?

You're all questions.
Never answers.

.......

 

[Cameron143]

You're all questions.
Never answers.

.......

Care to answer? Is the conviction of the Holy Spirit simply giving information, or does He exercise persuasion?

I've already given my answer.

 

[Rufus]

what you and Rufus say I believe does not equal what I believe.

Of course you do. You have already conceded essentially that YOU personally (along with all other professing Christians of course) are under the thumb (control) of the evil one, which does not put you in a very good place at all. You have been blinded so long by the evil one that you have grown to love the darkness, haven't you? You have grown so accustomed to it, you wouldn't know what to do without it and would shrink back from the Light -- and the POWER of the ONE born of God who keeps his people safe.

 

[lrs68]

Oh...so we can just discard the entire NT!? Most especially 2Tim 3:16, right!? In fact, going by your logic (if I dare call it that), we should toss out the OT too because that was written to the Old Covenant people of God.

But thanks for airing your utter disdain for Holy Writ... It's no wonder at all you FWers are such masters at eisegesis because in your heart of hearts you don't believe the eternal Word of God is relevant to us today -- so you just "freely" take liberties with scripture.

May God have mercy on your soul!

You really are self righteous!

We're saved and we have the benefits to everything God has given to us. But the audience is to whom the Letters were addressed to, whom the Apostles preached to.

Jesus spoke about us if you really need to feel special. We are the perverse Generation that represents the End of the Age. And we resemble everything that the Bible describes about us. Wicked, Evil, Perverse, Lovers of SELF, Self Righteous, we are that Generation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Only God is good when it comes to natural man.

It really is as simple as that.

But I do feel that promoting freedom in suffering a spiritual severance from God is bordering on absurd

I do have confusing thoughts over the matter,. Which mainly is to do with was there something spiritual about our nature in the first before there was a severance ?

Just on the bases of in order for our nature to have a spiritual severance from God is it possible the natural man did have a spiritual nature at first.

Well at least some kind of.spirual nature. It’s all a bit confusing for me to be honest.

“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We didn’t lose our living spirit in Eden , we lost gods spirits , presence with us .

When we accept the Holy Ghost we’re accepting Gods spirit back with our spirit

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Holy Ghost doesn’t replace us he comes to be with us as a companion

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ….But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1

your right man has always from the beginning had a living spirit in us what we lost was the constant companionship of Gods spirit dwelling with us. And that’s what the gospel restores Gods holy spirit with us

…..we have a spirit that can be saved by Jesus

 

[Rufus]

She [the woman in Luke 7] probably would not laugh, since one of the last things spoken of her was that she stood at His feet behind Him weeping.
She wept knowing that she was a sinner and desperately needed the forgiveness that could only come from Christ. Obviously the HS gave her an attitude adjustment.
She was drawn to Christ after being enabled to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.
God used her to teach a lesson to those who thought very highly of themselves. Therefore, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil and attended to His needs.
This kind of faith only comes from God himself!

Then He [Christ] said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

The repentant woman is a great example of what the Fear of God does to people's volitions who are granted this precious gift -- oops, I meant to say hearts!

 

[Rufus]

You really are self righteous!

We're saved and we have the benefits to everything God has given to us. But the audience is to whom the Letters were addressed to, whom the Apostles preached to.

Jesus spoke about us if you really need to feel special. We are the perverse Generation that represents the End of the Age. And we resemble everything that the Bible describes about us. Wicked, Evil, Perverse, Lovers of SELF, Self Righteous, we are that Generation.

God doesn't have TWO peoples! The entire bible is God's love letter to his elect which is ONE Body of People, i.e. THE Body of Christ -- throughout all ages! When God spoke to the first generation of NC believers, he spoke to all his saints throughout the centuries by extension.

 

[Rufus]

............... Have you read it lately?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. ​

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. Eph 1:13-14​

​

We were not regenerated before we were born again.

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit....​

​

​

.​

No one here that I know of has ever equated Regeneration with Faith or with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit. Another one of your inane straw men!

 

[Rufus]

She was drawn to Christ after being "enabled" to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.

Hilariously, this Calvinist fantasy is nowhere to be found in the entirety of the episode.

So, this woman was an arbitrary exception to what Jesus taught in John 6? She wasn't effectually drawn to Christ? In fact, she had to have been a whole lot smarter, pious and infinitely more spiritual than Peter was since he had personal revelation from God.