Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Maybe ask to define spiritual truth, instead.

I asked the correct question ... it's hard to tell who @Magenta is referring to when she throws out her blanket allegations without specifying who she is referring to. If @Magenta is referring to anything I have stated concerning the gospel, I would like to have the opportunity to clear up any misunderstanding.


Psalm 15:1-3 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
.

 

[Magenta]

And the sheer insanity of their position is that the Gospel was preached and taught (albeit in infancy form) throughout
the OT! The entire bible is the Gospel message, which of course the NT more fully reveals and unlocks its mysteries.

1 Timothy 3 v 16 By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1 According to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, God has made known to us the mystery of His will, which He purposed in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him Who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If Jesus paid the sin debt of the entire world in the distributive sense, then this means the entire world is saved since everyone in it is righteous! After all, man is justified by grace (Tit 3:7) -- grace that you and other say has been given to all men w/o exception.

Everyone was saved from sin by the Cross...
That is not the same as being saved from the Lake of Fire.

For no one is going to the Lake of Fire because of their sins.
They will go to the Lake of Fire for their rejection of God drawing them to Christ.

worth repeating ...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 28 v 26~ “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool.” Ecclesiastes 7 v 20~ “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Matthew 7 v 18~ “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.” Philippians 2 v 13~ “For it is God which worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If Jesus paid the sin debt of the entire world in the distributive sense, then this means the entire world is saved since everyone in it is righteous!

nope ... righteousness is imputed when a person believes

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

After all, man is justified by grace (Tit 3:7) -- grace that you and other say has been given to all men w/o exception.

Romans 1 clearly states we are justified by faith:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

 

[Jordon]

I was stating principle.

One person's reaction will not be the same as another's.

Calvinism was the principle of the topic.
Not the person.

oh I see you have an issue with calvinism ?

Well you know what I find it's best to drive away the blues

I just set the world record at Sardegna

Here watch

Just friendly warming friend but your annoyance with Calvinism has come across as bit much.

If you can't agree sometimes it's just better to agree to disagree if that makes sense.

 

[Magenta]

Just friendly warming friend but your annoyance with Calvinism has come across as bit much.

Calvinist as a pejorative is thrown around and applied to people whether they are Calvinists or not.

It's not like some of the things the Bible actually teaches were only promoted by Calvin.

But they care not. They only care that they can label you and dismiss
Scripture at the same time, as if doing the former justifies the latter.

 

[Rufus]

does God see "every one of his elect" as being "perfectly holy, righteous and good" before the "elect" come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Is "Christ's righteousness" imputed to them before they believe?
.

Of course, He does! How can God see Jesus in his elect apart from seeing his Body!? Does God just look at the Head and not the Head's Body? Does God see just the Bridegroom and not His Bride? Consider this text:

Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
KJV

"Hath chosen" is in the aorist tense. The text does not say that He "has chosen us to be in Him", as in some future time in temporal reality. In eternal reality, there is no past or future. There is only Today. God's chosen people were in Christ in eternity before the beginning of time. There was never a moment in eternity when God's elect were not in Christ. Of course, the elect themselves are not made aware of their spiritual destiny until the new birth in time and space.

So...to answer your second question, YES! Christ's righteousness was also imputed to the elect in eternity. On what basis you ask: On the basis of Grace and Faith -- both of which are found in Christ! Is not Christ the embodiment of Grace (Jn 1:14, 17)? And isn't faith a two-sided coin with the other side being Faithfulness? Did not Jesus always believe and trust in his Father perfectly and do all that his Father willed? Even the faith that was poured out abundantly on believers is in Christ (1Tim 1:14).

And has any of God's decrees ever failed? What God has decreed in eternity is absolutely certain to come to past in this life.

God decreed the salvation of his chosen ones in eternity; Christ purchased that salvation on behalf of the elect in time and space; and the Holy Spirit applies His life and work to the souls of the elect in temporal reality as well.

 

[Jordon]

Calvinist as a pejorative is thrown around and applied to people whether they are Calvinists or not.

It's not like some of the things the Bible actually teaches were only promoted by Calvin.

But they care not. They only care that they can label you and dismiss
Scripture at the same time, as if doing the former justifies the latter.

I feal people just make to much of denomination in-differences.

For most part, what ever church your assigned to generally stems from m the church you have been introduced to.

Be it a Calvinist church or baptist church or Pentecostal church. At the end of the day beautiful thoughtful God abiding people attend there.

However where on the internet where egos take a whole new level, which stems from people not being to express there ego at home i feel.

Peace

 

[lrs68]

I thought you told me that God was not the cause of Moses turning, but that Moses decided all by himself!

That is not what my posts proclaimed anywhere. I said God became a Burning Bush and Moses said I Will look. Moses chose to look but God got his attention first.

 

[Rufus]

Aaahhhmmm.....no.
Far from twisting Pharaohs arm, God let Pharaoh do whatever Pharaoh WILLED.
And the judgements were a justified REACTION.

And if course, God's will prevailed, because He had His plan of salvation in the works.....that which will never fail.

Time for you to hit the books buddy

You should take your own advice! God predicted to Moses that Pharaoh would not let his people go UNTIL God compels him! Have you never read:

Ex 3:19-20
19 But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand compels him. 20 So I will stretch out my hand and strike the Egyptians with all the wonders that I will perform among them. After that, he will let you go.
NIV

Wow! Looks like poor Pharaoh was bullied, coerced and forced to let God's people go! Real shocker, heh? God doesn't play games. What He says goes!

Then when we get to chapter 4, we find this:

Ex 4:21
21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But *I WILL* harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.
NIV

Can you see cause and effect in this text? Can you see God's FREEWILL in this text? Can you see the biblical doctrine of Compatiblism in the passage? Pharaoh was an eager beaver to perform God's will, wasn't he? Later on in the narrative, we read where the king hardened his own heart. Why do you deny these truths!? It appears you don't like it much when God exercises his FREEWILL. You FWers only get all excited, wave your arms and jump up and down with your pom poms when you come across a text of some mere mortal exercising his "freewill". But what in the world do you think happens when God gives reprobates over to the depravity of their own minds? I'll tell you what happens: God's will gets done and the reprobates who are lovers of the darkness are just delighted to sink further in the muck and mire of their miserable, sinful existence.

God's sovereign will is always done whether he bestows grace upon people, or he withdraws or withholds grace from others -- which was the case with Pharaoh.

 

[Rufus]

worth repeating ...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

So, you agree with my post that if God gives JUSTIFYING grace to all w/o exception, then all men must be saved since to be justified means that the sons of men have been declared righteous? And to be declared righteous in turn means that everyone's sins are forgiven -- every single one of them! UNIVERSAL SALVATION! Whoopee!

 

[cv5]

worth repeating ...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

Lets repeat Romans 11.
All of which is a scathing rebuke of super-determinism.

 

[Rufus]

Lets repeat Romans 11.
All of which is a scathing rebuke of super-determinism.

Ya sure about that? God was super-determined to protect Sarah from Abimelech, and He was successful. He was also determined to get Joseph into Egypt through the outworking of his brothers' evil plans. And He was very determined to set his chosen people free in Egypt through and by a wicked, pagan king no less. And He was uber-determined to not only prohibit Balaam from cursing Israel, but "forced" this prophet/sorcerer into actually blessing the nation, etc., etc.

Evidently, Rom 11 ain't sayin' what you think it is...

 

[Jordon]

oh I see you have an issue with calvinism ?

Well you know what I find it's best to drive away the blues

I just set the world record at brands hatch lol,

Here watch

Just friendly warming friend but your annoyance with Calvinism has come across as bit much.

If you can't agree sometimes it's just better to agree to disagree if that makes sense.

oops edited the post above @Genez I posted the wrong video.

You know with racing especially in vr mode you can really blow those cobwebs away lol

 

[reneweddaybyday]

does God see "every one of his elect" as being "perfectly holy, righteous and good" before the "elect" come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Is "Christ's righteousness" imputed to them before they believe?

Of course, He does! How can God see Jesus in his elect apart from seeing his Body!? Does God just look at the Head and not the Head's Body? Does God see just the Bridegroom and not His Bride? Consider this text:

Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
KJV

consider this text:

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light

Prior to being born again you were "darkness" ... same truth is revealed in Ephesians 2:

Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Prior to being born again you "walked according to the course of this world" ... you were "by nature the [child] of wrath", even as all natural men.

Do you not read all the verses contained in Magenta's artwork concerning natural man ??? I'm sure she'd be happy to share them with you again; however, she submits all the artwork multiple times so it should be easy enough for you to find one or two ... or fifty.

"Hath chosen" is in the aorist tense. The text does not say that He "has chosen us to be in Him", as in some future time in temporal reality. In eternal reality, there is no past or future. There is only Today.

before you were born again, that was "Today" at the time ... and prior to being born again, you were "darkness" ... you "walked according to the course of this world" ... you were "by nature the [child] of wrath", even as all natural men ... and you have already freely admitted your prideful and obstinate behavior before your current "humble" demeanor ... as I witness your current "humility", I cannot imagine the pride that oozed from you prior to you coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

God's chosen people were in Christ in eternity before the beginning of time. There was never a moment in eternity when God's elect were not in Christ. Of course, the elect themselves are not made aware of their spiritual destiny until the new birth in time and space.

Christ was in eternity before the beginning of time and He alone is the Elect. You? ... me? ... nope. We were not a part of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ until we were born again.

So...to answer your second question, YES! Christ's righteousness was also imputed to the elect in eternity.

eternity future? yes ... eternity past? nope ... righteousness is imputed when a person believes.

Romans 4:3-5 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted [verb - present tense] for righteousness.

Righteousness is imputed when the person believes ... not before ... and certainly not in some nebulous eternity past.

On what basis you ask: On the basis of Grace and Faith -- both of which are found in Christ! Is not Christ the embodiment of Grace (Jn 1:14, 17)? And isn't faith a two-sided coin with the other side being Faithfulness? Did not Jesus always believe and trust in his Father perfectly and do all that his Father willed? Even the faith that was poured out abundantly on believers is in Christ (1Tim 1:14).

In agreement Jesus always believed and trusted in His Father perfectly and did all His Father willed. You? ... Me? ... definitely not.

And has any of God's decrees ever failed? What God has decreed in eternity is absolutely certain to come to past in this life.

God has purposed that all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will be considered "elect" at the time they are in the Lord Jesus Christ. You were not in the Lord Jesus Christ until you were born again ... not before. Before you were born again you were "darkness" ... you "walked according to the course of this world" ... you were "by nature the [child] of wrath", even as all natural men.

God decreed the salvation of his chosen ones in eternity; Christ purchased that salvation on behalf of the elect in time and space; and the Holy Spirit applies His life and work to the souls of the elect in temporal reality as well.

There was only one "Elect" with God in eternity past ... and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

You were not in the Lord Jesus Christ until you believed. Until you believed, you were just like those nasty, filthy unbelievers you seem to believe you were not part of ... there is no subset of humanity that is "elect" prior to being born again.
.

 

[Edward429451]

I asked the correct question ... it's hard to tell who @Magenta is referring to when she throws out her blanket allegations without specifying who she is referring to. If @Magenta is referring to anything I have stated concerning the gospel, I would like to have the opportunity to clear up any misunderstanding.


Psalm 15:1-3 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
.

That's just how women talk nowadays.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So, you agree with my post

When your post agrees with Scripture, then I will agree with your post.

if God gives JUSTIFYING grace to all w/o exception, then all men must be saved since to be justified means that the sons of men have been declared righteous? And to be declared righteous in turn means that everyone's sins are forgiven -- every single one of them! UNIVERSAL SALVATION! Whoopee!

your ineptitude in rightly dividing the Word of Truth is astounding.
.

 

[BillyBob]

That is not what my posts proclaimed anywhere. I said God became a Burning Bush and Moses said I Will look. Moses chose to look but God got his attention first.

Who struck the match that set the bush on fire? (action on God's part)
Did not God choose Moses? (Yes God choose him)
Would Moses have turned had God not set it ablaze? (No, man is being drawn to perform God's will)
Did God not cause the event? (yes God caused all that took place)
Dream on!