Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22

 

[Magenta]

I thought you told me that God was not the cause of Moses turning, but that Moses decided all by himself!

From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.

 

[Rufus]

I can't come up with ONE judicial reason, because your case is a FALSE PREMISE.

He paid for your sins and not for yours only but for the sins of the whole world.

Adams trespass affected all. MUCH MORE did the Grace gift go to ALL.

If Jesus paid the sin debt of the entire world in the distributive sense, then this means the entire world is saved since everyone in it is righteous! After all, man is justified by grace (Tit 3:7) -- grace that you and other say has been given to all men w/o exception.

 

[cv5]

Got to keep in mind. Many in the day that these doctrinal concepts were being birthed were illiterate and uneducated.

The various bogus doctrines pertaining to the "pre-birth sovereign lottery" are likewise birthed in devastating Biblical illiteracy and failures of scholarship.

All that I get out of the super-determinists are Bible sounbite tweets, word salads and vituperative denials when sound doctrine does make an entrance.

Sorry fake sorry.

 

[Magenta]

From 2 Corinthians 5 v 17 and Romans 6 v 13 ~ If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. Present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life;

 

[cv5]

I thought you told me that God was not the cause of Moses turning, but that Moses decided all by himself!

Come on @BillyBob
God called, God beckoned, God initiated......

Moses responded positively, received and accepted of his own desire and free will.

Pharaoh responded negatively, denied and resisted of his own desire and free will.

Question: Is there the SLIGHTEST indication that God twisted Moses's arm or lobotomized him? No there is not.

The super-determinists are getting creamed out here in the field of play. It's not even close. Which is exactly what one would expect.

 

[Rufus]

That was very humble of you to say it that way....

Well...you don't! Since Jesus is the Federal Representative of the elect, then God identifies every one of his elect with their Head! God no longer sees the elect as sinners but as being perfectly holy, righteous and good, since Christ's righteousness has been imputed to them. This is how God can give grace to the elect because that grace flows through the elect's Federal Head who epitomized humility. This truth presents a huge problem to FWT since the entire world is not in Christ and has never been predestined to be in Him, which means the proud, arrogant, God-hating, rebellious world at large is not the recipient of God's saving, covenantal grace of love. Jesus alone merits God's love and grace that flows from that love!

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

And,

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

Also, since Christ is the embodiment of the Eternal New Covenant (Isa 49:6) then it's only those who have been predestined in eternity who are in covenant relationship with God through the Son. The world has never been in a redemptive covenant relationship with God. Only the godly occupants of the restored world at the end of this age will eternally be in that kind of relationship with God.

 

[Rufus]

In agreement...

Those who are needing to be saved are not required, not able to know spiritual truths.

As far as the Gospel?

Any hack can and will eventually come to know that he is a sinner. That's not spiritual truth.

He can also know by the nature of the creation itself, that there must be a God. Nature teaches that one.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness ​

of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God ​

is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world ​

God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, ​

being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20​

The Gospel is not the same as teaching regenerate people spiritual truths.
To try to teach spiritual truths to an unregenerate person would be futile.

Are you saying the Gospel isn't spiritual truth?

 

[Genez]

If Jesus paid the sin debt of the entire world in the distributive sense, then this means the entire world is saved since everyone in it is righteous! After all, man is justified by grace (Tit 3:7) -- grace that you and other say has been given to all men w/o exception.

Everyone was saved from sin by the Cross...
That is not the same as being saved from the Lake of Fire.

For no one is going to the Lake of Fire because of their sins.
They will go to the Lake of Fire for their rejection of God drawing them to Christ.

Not sin, works... will be the means to condemn the unbelievers.

​

But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath ​

for yourself in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. ​

He will repay each one according to his works: Romans 2:5-6​

Good works can never make someone have the righteousness required of God to accept him into his Eternal realm.

​

I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books ​

were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were ​

judged according to their works by what was written in the books. Revelation 20:12​

Sin will not be the issue to determine where God has us to be in eternity.
The Cross nullified the eternal penalty for sin.

First we must get this much to better understand salvation.

 

[NightTwister]

If He wont blot out the names of those who overcome, then it implies that some will not overcome and be blotted out.

And yet, He doesn't say that.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, - Rev 22:18

 

[Genez]

The various bogus doctrines pertaining to the "pre-birth sovereign lottery" are likewise birthed in devastating Biblical illiteracy and failures of scholarship.

All that I get out of the super-determinists are Bible sounbite tweets, word salads and vituperative denials when sound doctrine does make an entrance.

Sorry fake sorry.

Kamala Harris had a lot of people liking her with her word salads...

Such trends run in parallels between the secular and the eternal with humans.

 

[Rufus]

Come on @BillyBob
God called, God beckoned, God initiated......

Moses responded positively, received and accepted of his own desire and free will.

Pharaoh responded negatively, denied and resisted of his own desire and free will.

Question: Is there the SLIGHTEST indication that God twisted Moses's arm or lobotomized him? No there is not.

The super-determinists are getting creamed out here in the field of play. It's not even close. Which is exactly what one would expect.

Which is the very reason why God raised up Pharaoh, since He determined in eternity to harden his heart so that the king would resist Him (Prov 21:1; Ex 4:21). So...the king willingly obliged God in fulfilling his own eternal destiny.

 

[Genez]

Well there sure is a lot of warnings in scripture.

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels..../KJV

If He wont blot out the names of those who overcome, then it implies that some will not overcome and be blotted out.

Besides, when we turn to the Lord and say the sinners prayer, we don't really know if that is when He writes our names in His book of life, or later?

I know everyone likes to believe it is at the moment of the sinners prayer, and everybody likes to believe, that's it I'm saved and once saved always saved, because they said the sinners prayer and asked forgiveness. OSAS is people's justification to sit down and not work for the Lord's kingdom,

The parable of the talents shows us that the one who doesn't press in to his service to the Lord winds up being an unprofitable servant. That man's talent was taken from him and he was cast into outer darkness. Food for thought.

"If He wont blot out the names of those who overcome, then it implies that some will not overcome and be blotted out. "

Note.....

The term "name" could indicate what we today call one's title.

Those who overcome will reign with Him.
Therefore, they will have a *title* attached to them.

Others, who fail to overcome?
They will have their titles (name) blotted out!

Just like Jesus has a name that is actually his *title.

On his robe and on his thigh, he has this name written:
King of kings and lord of lords.


Revelation 19:16​

 

[Magenta]

Are you saying the Gospel isn't spiritual truth?

I have seen some free willers claim ^^ that... there is just about no line they will not cross to cling to their false doctrine.

 

[Rufus]

Did @Rufus come into this world as a meek, lowly and humble servant? And receive Grace?

You guys tell us over and over and over that man cannot believe until we are saved.

So you HAD to receive Grace as a proud wretch. And you teach us God does not give Grace to the proud.

You still don't read too swell, do you? AGAIN...to answer your foolish question, the answer is NO! Rufus did not come into this world in that manner. BUT MY FEDERAL HEAD did! The grace I have received is based entirely on Jesus' merit! Jesus was/is everything I am not! Can you wrap your mind around that? God never looks at his elect apart from their identity to their Federal Head.

 

[Rufus]

I have seen some free willers claim ^^ that... there is just about no line they will not cross to cling to their false doctrine.

And the sheer insanity of their position is that the Gospel was preached and taught (albeit in infancy form) throughout the OT! The entire bible is the Gospel message, which of course the NT more fully reveals and unlocks its mysteries.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God identifies every one of his elect with their Head! God no longer sees the elect as sinners but as being perfectly holy, righteous and good, since Christ's righteousness has been imputed to them.

does God see "every one of his elect" as being "perfectly holy, righteous and good" before the "elect" come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Is "Christ's righteousness" imputed to them before they believe?
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Are you saying the Gospel isn't spiritual truth?

I have seen some free willers claim ^^ that... there is just about no line they will not cross to cling to their false doctrine.

Magenta ... who has said that?
.

 

[cv5]

Which is the very reason why God raised up Pharaoh, since He determined in eternity to harden his heart so that the king would resist Him (Prov 21:1; Ex 4:21). So...the king willingly obliged God in fulfilling his own eternal destiny.

Aaahhhmmm.....no.
Far from twisting Pharaohs arm, God let Pharaoh do whatever Pharaoh WILLED.
And the judgements were a justified REACTION.

And if course, God's will prevailed, because He had His plan of salvation in the works.....that which will never fail.

Time for you to hit the books buddy

 

[HeIsHere]

Magenta ... who has said that?
.

Maybe ask to define spiritual truth, instead.