Where does it say that? And what about those in Acts 19 who were sealed well after they believed. And if your argument is from Ephesians 1:13, it says after you believed. It doesn't say immediately after you believe.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God has given you the free will to choose for that.
Your decision is your own.
No one made you think it.
In Philippians 1:29, the word "believing" is present tense ... the word "suffering" is present tense ... so they were believing and suffering at the time of the writing ... and the next verse says:
Philippians 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
the words "having" and "hear" are present tense ... whatever "conflict" the Philippian believers were enduring was happening at the time ...
whatever they "saw in me [Paul]" was something Paul had gone through prior ... and "now hear to be in me [Paul]" was something Paul was continuing to go through.
Bottomline ... God continues to work within the born again believer as he or she is enduring the sufferings of this present time so that the believer is able to overcome ...
.
Don't assume I think God stops at hindering the sin nature, that is only so one can make the decision to believe freely from their own soul whereas you think they need to be born again (have spiritual life) in order to believe. Indeed, it appears you think that being given spiritual life will automatically result in believing.
So in your mind is spiritual death not the wages of sin from which we need to be saved? Do you believe we were all condemned to eternal death in Adam?
For me, eternal life is the outworking of one's spiritual life for eternal life is to know God. Jn.17:3 It is not something separate or in addition to spiritual life. One can only know another based on what they are willing to reveal. In Christ, the fullness of God has been revealed and we are in Christ therefore we have eternal life if indeed, we belong to Christ.
Thanks roger, it's always a good pleasure to find agreement, as brothers christ we should always look to support each other, all tho that pleasure seems lacking here for some, but no matter friend I'm sure your grace is sufficient
Peace
I believe it is the circumcision of the heart that creates in an individual a new nature, and the new nature which allows the freedom to understand and pursue God.
Spiritual life is imparted to make an individual alive to the things of God. We are saved from our sins. And we all came under condemnation as a result of Adam's sin.
Eternal life is knowing God and enabled by spiritual life, but they are not the same thing. One is experiential knowledge and intimacy with God;the other is the state of possessing a living spirit.
God has given me a new nature that has freed me to operate in compliance with His will both inwardly and outwardly.
Look at the record yourself, Cameron143 ... God spoke to Abraham and Abraham believed God ...
Genesis 15:
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
In our day and time ...
Romans 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
vss 16-17 - the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes ...
vss 18-20 - those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse because they do not believe when the gospel of Christ is revealed ...
.
The problem is I don't see your answers as explaining anything.
You say we came under condemnation because of Adam's sin but I asked what type of condemnation. Were we condemned to eternal death or spiritual death?
You say we are saved from our sins but we still sin so how is that a salvation?
I don't see spiritual and eternal life being the same thing but I don't see them as separate gifts. If spiritual life enables us to know God as you say (and it does), then the moment you are alive, you know God and therefore, have eternal life. I don't see how it can be given after as something in addition to spiritual life. They go together or not at all.
Acts 19 speaks of those who had heard and believed the gospel of John after Apollos had taught them.
Paul was at Ephesus for a short while. He was asked to stay, but Paul declined and left to go to Caesura, Jerusalem, Antioch (Acts 18:21-22).
Acts 18:24 - Apollos came to Ephesus.
Acts 18:25 - Apollos knew only the baptism of John.
Acts 18:26 - Apollos taught in Ephesus ... Aquila and Priscilla took Apollos aside and taught him the way of the Lord more perfectly. Apollos left to go to Achaia (Acts 18:27).
Acts 19:1 - Paul returned to Ephesus after Apollos left.
Acts 19:3 - The Ephesians had not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost because Apollos knew and taught only the baptism of John.
Acts 19:5-6 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
.
Why must you explain that to me?
Did he not also give me a new nature also?
You think I did not understand?
The condemnation is to eternal death in the Lake of Fire.
Jesus came to save His people from their sins. That's what we are saved from. Sins is plural. It includes past, present, and future sin. When we were saved, we were freed from the penalty of sin. Currently we are being freed from the power of sin. In eternity, we are freed from the presence of sin.
I'm not going to bicker over spiritual life and eternal life. I simply see eternal life as an aspect of spiritual life.
Correct.
It says we are GRACIOUSLY granted.
ecarisqh echaristhE G5483 vi Aor Pas 3 Sg IS-gracED it-is-graciously-granted
@Genez has pointed out numerous times how the GRACE of God Divides our flesh and soul....So we can make a clear and concise choice.
And God has GRACIOUSLY granted us belief or rejection of His plan for our salvation.
We keep going over the same stuff and you still haven't directly answered my question. I appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.
It doesn't say He granted us a choice. It says He granted us belief. If it said He gave us a choice I would agree with you. Also, does it say He gave us a choice in suffering? Why is the choice added only to belief and not also to suffering?
Both ways. That's why such a verse in and of itself is not a proof text.Suppositions are often built into the question.