Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Kroogz said:
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is not raising ourselves from the dead.

Faith has no merit. The Lord Jesus Christ does the saving.

Again....You believe, I believe. There is no merit in believing.
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You say that there is no merit in believing yet it is implied when you require belief before conversion. By doing this, you are saying that a person who is dead in sin raised themselves out of that condition in order to believe and place their trust in our God.
The truth is that all things needed to become a child of God are gifts which He freely gives to His chosen people. Our only hope is to realize that we are without hope and plead God's mercy!
I do agree that it is The Lord Jesus Christ who does the saving. Trust and belief are merely a fruit of the work that He performs.

Nothing in out hand we bring... It is all by God's Grace.
 
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studier said:
Acts16:31:

You (singular) believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ
  • Aorist Active Imperative 2nd Person Singular: The jailer is being commanded to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
    • What some don't want to accept here, is that the imperative/command is made to the will of the one commanded. The jailer is being commanded to choose to believe if he wants the result.
    • The Aorist command is not really concerned with when (time) but with how (aspect) the action is viewed. It's essentially viewed as a unit and something to be done decisively, completely, once-for-all.
And
  • Connects the two clauses, so believe is connected to saved
You (singular) will be saved:
  • Future Passive Indicative 2nd Person Singular: The jailer will be saved assuming he chooses to obey the command to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • The Future here can also be expressing certainty.
  • The Passive Voice says the saving will be done to the jailer.
    • So, we who read the language know we don't save ourselves.
The Greek has a couple different things to consider:
  • There is a logical order, so believe leads to salvation (believe > saved)
    • This cannot be reversed to say saved > believe.
  • There is a temporal order, so belief precedes salvation
    • This cannot be reversed to say saved > believe.
    • In regard to the temporal order:
      • The timing can be saved contemporaneous with or after believe.
        • Being that the aorist command is being issued in urgency and completeness, IMO it's best to see the logical order of believe > saved and the temporal concept based upon other Scriptures being contemporaneous or immediate.
        • Though salvation is a process with an entrance and a completion (actually more than one completion) I don't see the process in view. The jailer is facing death for the loss of prisoners.
[Choose to] believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be immediately saved when you believe.

@cv5 @reneweddaybyday @Cameron143 @HeIsHere @Genez
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So...did the jailer believe by the power of God's grace or the "power" of his "freewill"? Your uniformative post tells us what WHAT Paul told the jailer to do; but that passage doesn't tell us HOW the jailer finally came to faith.
 
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rogerg said:
Yup, for both of us.
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God saves your soul.

For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned ​
to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." 1 Peter 2:25​
​
Note.

It does not say...

For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned ​
to the Shepherd and Overseer of your bodies."​

It was the flesh with it's dominance over our souls that made our souls unable to function righteously.

Take away the flesh?
And, gve you a sinless body?

What would you get? Garbage?

​
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. ​
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. " Galatians 5:17 ​

To say your soul is worthless?
Is to say Christ was a fool to die on the Cross.

You Calvinists have a serious mental block.
You just can not put it together.

The preaching you must have heard telling you what a piece of crap we all are, appealed to you.
For it removed the feelings of guilt you had about yourself....

God loves your soul.
God does not love crap.
You say He does.
Total depravity would by default, mean that you soul was beyond redemption.

......
 
Colossians2-8-Romans16-18-Romans10-2-Proverbs19-2.png

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
 
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sawdust said:
Do you think that regeneration is not salvation?
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I'm not going to answer for Cam to whom you directed your question. But as for me, the answer is NO! Regeneration, in and of itself, is NOT salvation. Regeneration, however, will inevitably bring one to the new birth from above which is salvation! Regeneration, just like natural birth in this world, is a process that leads to its ordained end.
 
BillyBob said:
Sometimes I find your posts enjoyable to read, other times I find them disgusting.....
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The one whom it was written to, was in total agreement.
I was being all things to all men when I wrote it.

Sometimes the Word of God contains things that men deem disgusting to make a point.
The verse that says, "your righteousness is a filthy rags" has a very disgusting meaning in the Hebrew.

And, the Holy Spirit chose that wording to make God's point clear on the matter.

......
 
Rufus said:
I'm not going to answer for Cam to whom you directed your question. But as for me, the answer is NO! Regeneration, in and of itself, is NOT salvation. Regeneration, however, will inevitably bring one to the new birth from above which is salvation! Regeneration, just like natural birth in this world, is a process that leads to its ordained end.
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God's Word will not return void... but it will accomplish what He pleases, and it will prosper where God sends it.
 
NightTwister said:
Jesus asks us to go to the nations and preach the gospel because "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
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Romans10-13-15s.png

Romans 10 v 13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
:)
 
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Cameron143 said:
Faith spoken of here is not saving faith, but faith as the body of doctrine. Any others?
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What's your point? As usual, the rabbit trail begins.

This is what @studier is talking about. You guys WILL NOT Stick to a particular verse and hash it out......And many of us know why.
 
Genez said:
If that were the case?

Logic says... The given belief of salvation was the result of God knowing something about you before you believed.

If not? ... Then we are back to...
God chooses us, "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" ​

Calvinists (with their apparent unresolved self hatred) just can not fathom that God approves of anything when a man's volition chooses for the right thing.

In other words?

Calvinists see God saying what when he saves someone? (Please, excuse my French).

"Come on in, you worthless piece of s_it." (for that is what Calvinism amounts to!)​

Those who mock and oppose you?
They see what it is you are denying about in a person believing!


If someone came up to you and handed you a million dollars?
And, you sensed he can be trusted?
What is meritorious about you accepting it?
You merit nothing!

His Trustworthiness holds all the merit!
"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved!"

Thsoe who believe are able to sense God is to be trusted!
Yet, all the merit was to be found in God's trustworthiness, not you!

Those who reject salvation?
They find God untrustworthy and unworthy.
They see God as a liar, not as He is.

That is all there is to man's salvation!
No merit on our part.

All the merit is in the one offering the gift.
We simply perceived His Trustworthiness and accepted it.

It's not complicated!
It is the perplexing change we find in ourselves after we are born again that we find complicated!

Then? Satan brings in lies to impugn God if he could, to destabilize the saved.
Welcome to "Calvinism."

grace and peace!
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You need to prove from scripture that God's foreknowledge only refers to prescience. I have given a few example that show that foreknowledge clearly refers to God's prerogative.
 
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Rufus said:
You need to prove from scripture that God's foreknowledge only refers to prescience. I have
given a few example that show that foreknowledge clearly refers to God's prerogative.
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Romans8-29-30-Ephesians1-5.png

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
 
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Genez said:
I see?
Saint Rufus!
Mr. love your neighbor as you love yourself. Rufus style!

Just keep throwing those coconuts out the window!
And run downstairs real fast, and outside.
Then look up!

This is not the hood, sir.
Take your deeply carnal, hateful thinking somewhere else, please.

If this were a church?
There would be a restraining order out on you.
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You're asking me, "I see?". You don't know if you "see"? Have you ever considered seeking professional psychiatric help?
 
Kroogz said:
What's your point? As usual, the rabbit trail begins.

This is what @studier is talking about. You guys WILL NOT Stick to a particular verse and hash it out......And many of us know why.
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The verse originally under consideration dealt with faith accompanying salvation. You said some refuse the faith that is given in salvation. So I asked where in scripture you find someone refusing the gift of faith given in salvation. You share a verse that isn't talking about faith as a means to salvation, but one wherein faith means a set of beliefs. The verse you chose doesn't deal with saving faith. So I asked do you know of any verses that deal with someone refusing the gift of faith that brings salvation. So, do you?
 
Kroogz said:
Now this would be considered a work.

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is not considered a work.
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It says we are not saved by works.
What means, Works?

We need to know what that word meant when written.

Remember there were people asking Jesus what must they do to inherit eternal life?
They were seeking a new work to do to gain eternal life.
Jesus was seen as a rabbi with disciples and wished to know what this rabbi would prescribe.

Works was a system devised by religious men, designed to have men do them, as to gain the approval of God by what they do.

Yet? Works when in God's way?
Works are good.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​
which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:10​

Now...

There is one single work.
One work that God approves of as one walking through an open door into God's realm of salvation.

That one work is?


Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
(they were asking Jesus that as the typical disciple would ask his rabbi)

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:28-29​

One work required by God. To believe!

If we keep failing to understand the meaning of words and how they were used at the time of writing?
We will continue to be a body that is divided in mind.
 
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