Which is exactly what reformed theology supports, unlike your Arminian theology which seeks to elevate man because you believe that God somehow needs our approval.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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You are avoiding the question. How can suffering be given but not believing? You assent that suffering is given, but the verse clearly teaches both are given. Why do you assent to one but not the other?
total misrepresentation of what I believe ... are you even the slightest bit interested in clearing up your misrepresentation ...
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The verse doesn't say those things were given at that particular moment, but a point in the past.
We are not forced but we are enabled to choose, and before that it is not possible. Many Scripture
verses attest to this, though there are many here who disagree. They often contradict and outright
deny what the Bible says, and even rewrite verses to suit their vain self-exalting theology. Also,
those given to Jesus by God will come to Him. He draws us with lovingkindness to engender repentance.
1 Corinthians 15 verse 58 ~ Be steadfast and immovable. Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
Dear people
Concerning this topic, there is what the french will call "action déclencheur" the action that starts the Salvation process and brings justification. without this action, there's no Salvation. Even if it is true that God loves us all. And this is where the human will takes meaning in the salvation plan. This action is BELIEVE. without this you one can not come to Christ.
- in John 3:16 underline the word WHOSOEVER believes
- John 12:1 please underline here THEY WHO Believe
Our Christ Himself preaching would say REPENT AND BELIEVE
- Matthew 28:18-20 The Christ in giving the command of the great commission said we should go to ALL NATIONS.
so to this I want to say without believe no salvation and everyone who believes is called the elect the predestined. Why would Jesus ask us to go to the nations when he has already chosen and saved some.
I will end by saying theologians don't PROVE TEXT.
Every book we will ever read has a main point of matter, Every book has a main thesis. A message the author wants to pass across to the audience and so too is the Bible. So every chapter and word spoken is building on the main thesis.
We are not bound to agree on every thing concerning the Bible. Because it was not written directly to us. I am on this site but I am sometimes very loss because the context is not mine. Even if the words are plainly written in bold English. so theologians don't just speak they study scriptures day and night to be able to speak. they make sure they are not out of topic and they are not out of the main point of matter.
What is the Gospel? To many here, I and many other "freewillers" are on the questionable list concerning our salvation.
Faith they heard and not the Gospel, heh? Confused as ever, aren't you? You don't even know the difference between Faith and Gospel.
For your info, at the end of this age, everyone will believe! There will be no unbelievers in the eternal, visible kingdom nor in the lake of fire the eternal abode of the condemned. The entire universe will be filled with believers.
I do not see anyone questioning your salvation. I do see them questioning your understanding of how that took place.
...Grace and Peace...
As if we had the power and wisdom to accomplish it.
Super-determinist fringe crazy talk right there IMO.
Does free will affect our salvation or whether we are saved or not? let us say I am a free willy that I believe in free will and that I freely chose to follow Christ now let us say a friend says that no you did not freely choose him he chose you, well can it not be both? is God so limited that free will and the will of the father cannot coexist?
Lets bold it....... I believe that faith is given /granted.
What we see is some rejecting it.
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is His plan for mankind. If faith/believing wasn't given/granted to mankind....None could follow His plan.
Suffering for the sake of Christ is His plan for believers. If suffering wasn't given/granted to believers....none could follow His plan.
I believe this verse states that God continues to work within the born again believer so that the believer is able to endure and overcome in all situations ... God continues to strengthen our faith so we are strong in faith when those trying times come along ...
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake
Do you think God gave you faith and then "there you go ... you can do it" ???
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So faith is a gift of God, and someone's belief is the result of the activity of God?
Where in scripture do we find individuals rejecting faith?
Philippians 1 verse 29a + Romans 8 verse 17b ~ For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Indeed, we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.
No I don't believe that. But believing on Him is the verbiage of salvation...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. It doesn't say believe Him, but believe on Him.
This, BTW, is why believing is not a work on our part: because it is given unto us.
yes ... believe on Him and continue believing on Him ...
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Faith from beginning and continuing in faith.
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It is out of man's nature that he makes choices ... and the free will proponents assert that the wicked heart of the natural man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend while hostile in his mind toward God Whom he hates as a child of wrath. That unregenerated person is opposed to the spiritual things of God and hears the gospel as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit. But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, all in favor of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said, including Jesus saying salvation is not possible with man. Scripture plainly articulates that salvation is by the desire and will of God and NOT by the will desire or effort of man. In fact the free will proponents regularly and routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated. So it is not just a matter of a mere difference of opinion, it is how much and how many verses the free will crowd rejects, contradicts, denies, and even rewrites to suit their heresy.
