Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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HeIsHere said:
I will go with option #3 it is the biblical one.
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Robert Thieme, Jr. always specified that the soul had a very limited area for volition concerning knowing the bare minimum required for salvation. That an unsaved person can not study and comprehend Bible doctrine.

I will speak for myself.
An example would be.

In our fallen state, we all can know we sin.
And, sooner or later, will realize that we sin.

We can know when someone is offering a solution.

So, give it a shot?
Sure.

Then, in regard to salvation in Christ?
Try it....
What just happened to me?

That's how some people get saved.

They do not know they were getting saved, just like all those Gentiles Peter was preaching to who
spontaneously broke out speaking in tongues.

They were not told about the gifts beforehand.
It just happened because they believed!



While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. ​
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy ​
Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and ​
praising God." Acts 10:44-46​

Peter gaver no altar call!
They believed Peters words while he was still speaking them!

The Jews were shocked to see the Gedntiles getting saved!
That is what it measns, in the early church tongues was a "sign" to the Jews!
The Jews were getting used to the idea that salvation was now universally offered to all!
 
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this may not be related to the topic shared but what happened to the chat room where you could physically talk and type? does that not exist anymore? :(
 
Rufus said:
That's not what the text says. If the passage read: "For those whom God knew in eternity, he also predestined...", this would not change the sense of the passage whatsoever. The reason Paul used the prefix "pro" before "knew" is to make the point that God [fore]knew people BEFORE Time began. This passage has zero to do with God's prescience and everything to do with with his personal covenant of love, affection, intimacy with those whom He chose in eternity to save.

Are you going to suggest that Jesus will not possess the attribute of omniscience when on the last day he tells unbelievers that he never knew them (Mat 7:23)?
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Wait a second?
Perhaps you changed one word, or two?

You said.. "For those whom God knew in eternity, he also predestined."

Ephesians 1:4?
It says, I believe.... whom God chose, not knew.

God "chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy ​
and without blame before him in love" ​

Meaning?

God chose out from all souls throughout history that He knows will believe.
Only some chosen to be the Bride of Christ.

That is why it says we were chosen "in Him."
For Eve was in Adam before her body was revealed?
Likewise for us the Bride of Christ!
For we are now like Eve was before she was revealed.
For we are now hidden in His body seated with Him in heavenly realms!

Predestine?

God PREDESTINED us to be alive and living during the church age!
Why?
So that when we believed?
We would be baptized into His body - his Bride!

That is what we have been predestined for because He chose us to be the Bride!

:coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
mistidawn94 said:
this may not be related to the topic shared but what happened to the chat room where you could physically talk and type? does that not exist anymore? :(
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I do not know of any such feature. @Magenta may be able to answer this question. However, don't let the fact that you may be required to type keep you away. :)
 
HeIsHere said:
Stay tuned for the regularly scheduled response..... oops I mean program.
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There are fewer supposed Calvinist passages than fingers on one hand and toes on one foot.

All of them misinterpreted, misapprehended or twisted to suit.

Despite the super-determinists denials, here is the heart of the matter....for every man.

[Gen 32:24-28 KJV] 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
 
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cv5 said:
There are fewer supposed Calvinist passages than fingers on one hand and toes on one foot.

All of them misinterpreted, misapprehended or twisted to suit.

Despite the super-determinists denials, here is the heart of the matter....for every man.

[Gen 32:24-28 KJV] 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
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Was Jacob's blessing the result of Jacob's endeavors or the result of God's promises?
 
Cameron143 said:
It's a simple question. Just seeing if you actually understand the scriptures you shared?

Also, why was Jacob asked his name?
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It seems like you have all of the questions, while I ALREADY have all of the answers.
And these answers have been posted several times on several different threads.
 
sawdust said:
My question to that would be .. is it metaphorical? When God said to Adam "in the day you eat of the tree (to) die you will die?" was He being literal or metaphorical? Gen.2:17

The physical death we experience certainly isn't metaphorical and there are two deaths mentioned in that verse. That has to mean something, surely?

I have a hunch we may need to take this bit by bit and go slow so as not to lose anyone along the way. :)
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Do you believe the soul animates the body?
 
Cameron143 said:
Was Jacob's blessing the result of Jacob's endeavors or the result of God's promises?
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If you truly research with God leading you it doesn't require much to understand God made a way to bring Jesus into this world. That required a people and a lineage. It's a grave error to apply some things that happened to ancient people in order to get Jesus being born a Jew to people living beyond that specific plan once it was fulfilled.
 
lrs68 said:
If you truly research with God leading you it doesn't require much to understand God made a way to bring Jesus into this world. That required a people and a lineage. It's a grave error to apply some things that happened to ancient people in order to get Jesus being born a Jew to people living beyond that specific plan once it was fulfilled.
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Jacob was saved in a manner no different than anyone today, to wit:
All of this a stunning rebuke to super-determinism BTW.

[1Jo 5:4 KJV]
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

[1Jo 5:5 KJV]
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[Rev 2:7 KJV]
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

[Rev 2:11 KJV]
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

[Rev 2:17 KJV]
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

[Rev 2:26 KJV]
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

[Rev 3:5 KJV]
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[Rev 3:12 KJV]
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

[Rev 3:21 KJV]
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

[Rev 21:7 KJV]
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
 
lrs68 said:
If you truly research with God leading you it doesn't require much to understand God made a way to bring Jesus into this world. That required a people and a lineage. It's a grave error to apply some things that happened to ancient people in order to get Jesus being born a Jew to people living beyond that specific plan once it was fulfilled.
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Not necessarily! All of God's chosen people are called to serve Him in some capacity. Each of one of us has a specific call from God.
 
Genez said:
Wait a second?
Perhaps you changed one word, or two?

You said.. "For those whom God knew in eternity, he also predestined."

Ephesians 1:4?
It says, I believe.... whom God chose, not knew.

God "chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy ​
and without blame before him in love" ​

Meaning?

God chose out from all souls throughout history that He knows will believe.
Only some chosen to be the Bride of Christ.

That is why it says we were chosen "in Him."
For Eve was in Adam before her body was revealed?
Likewise for us the Bride of Christ!
For we are now like Eve was before she was revealed.
For we are now hidden in His body seated with Him in heavenly realms!

Predestine?

God PREDESTINED us to be alive and living during the church age!
Why?
So that when we believed?
We would be baptized into His body - his Bride!

That is what we have been predestined for because He chose us to be the Bride!

:coffee::coffee::coffee:
Click to expand...

Rom 8:29 has NOTHING to do with God's prescience. If it does, then you have a huge theological problem with Mat 7:23 because in order for you to be consistent with your prescience nonsense, you'd have to say that at the Parousia Jesus won't be omniscient since He never FOREKNEW the sins of the sinners he will condemn.
 
lrs68 said:
If you truly research with God leading you it doesn't require much to understand God made a way to bring Jesus into this world. That required a people and a lineage. It's a grave error to apply some things that happened to ancient people in order to get Jesus being born a Jew to people living beyond that specific plan once it was fulfilled.
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First, can you answer my questions?

Second, while I agree that that fulfilled prophecy was for a particular time and people, to suggest that we disregard application of scripture is simply wrong. Can we learn nothing profitable from the book of Leviticus that will help us today? Likewise, all of scripture is profitable to us today...2 Timothy 3:16.
 
sawdust said:
My question to that would be .. is it metaphorical? When God said to Adam "in the day you eat of the tree (to) die you will die?" was He being literal or metaphorical? Gen.2:17

The physical death we experience certainly isn't metaphorical and there are two deaths mentioned in that verse. That has to mean something, surely?

I have a hunch we may need to take this bit by bit and go slow so as not to lose anyone along the way. :)
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As I posted a bit ago, whether it's metaphor or not, or metaphor in part, it seems is open to a lot of interpretation. I also posted re: the concept of 2 deaths in Gen2:17.

The issue for me as I've said or alluded to, is that we have several systems of interpretation and nearly as many versions of what death means in Gen2:17. Then we go along with a made-up phrase "spiritual death" used by at least several systems but each of them ultimately inserts their own definition for "spiritual". If I carry this into verses like Eph2:1-5 or any other Scriptures like this, each system is thinking something different when they read the word "dead".

These 2 make more sense and I had a guy tell me how he loves and fully supports this stuff.
 
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