The idea that grace exercised through faith doesn't include faith as the grace being exercised is in itself ridiculous. It's like the grace of God in giving sunshine doesn't actually include the sunshine and all that results from it.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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They cannot let it be a gift because that takes some of the shine off of their vain philosophically based man-exalting theology.
That's funny because I was just thinking about how you believe man change his heart even though
Scripture says the opposite reminds me of how people think they can change their gender by taking
drugs and having surgery, then they will tell us men can have babies. Yeah. That kind of funny.
Except this is ontologically impossible in your TULIP economy.
Yet, somehow Zacharias and Elizabeth pulled it off.
Just to be clear, you and @Rufus and @Magenta say that dead people heed nothing right? And you say that an utterly incapacitated corpse certainly cannot "exercise" right? And that dead people cannot make any right decisions no how no way?
Just checking.
Sorry fat fingered that last post.
[Luk 1:5 KJV]
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.
[Luk 1:6 KJV]
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
The grave error is to teach "faith" is something God effectually causes in some and makes impossible for the rest.
They miss a lot of things. For example:
[Luk 16:31 KJV]
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, G3982 though one rose from the dead.
The KJV translates Strong's G3982 in the following manner: persuade (22x), trust (8x), obey (7x), have confidence (6x), believe (3x), be confident (2x), miscellaneous (7x).
Evidently the OT is more than sufficient testimony to have anyone "trust", "obey", "believe".
And I agree for a multitude of reasons of course. Not the least of which are the innumerable "Divine watermarks" that are impossible to counterfeit.
And it sure worked wonderfully for Zacharias and Elizabeth.
Such misunderstanding is common Pemican, didn't want to discuss my view yet but think it's necessary as others are likely to misunderstand too.
Think about it, how can we say we have free will, when we must accommodate the needs of others and their choices too? It's actually impossible but what we do have is agency, we can make some choices and influence other decisions and events.
Personally think the only being who really has free will is the LORD and i say Amen to that.
it seems you are talking two different things.
IF you must accommodate the needs of others, you have willfully chosen to do so. As many today decide not to.
You pay taxes not by your will but by force, which means your will was overcome by a great force," might makes right."
God is all-powerful, yet He allows you to live and choose this day whom you will serve. The repercussions for your choice are enabled.
The grave error is to teach something that scripture doesn't teach. As is, you have people appropriating faith for themselves from a faith they don't possess. If someone appropriates something for themselves according to the word of God, they are simply demonstrating a faith they are already in possession of.
According to TULIP, not only is it impossible for God to judge sin (as He is the originator of it according to Satan), it's impossible for Zacharias and Elizabeth to be honored and rewarded for their faithful obeyance, because God is putting a hedge around them.
Of course Satan is wrong about this and is lying as is his will and desire.
[Job 1:10 KJV]
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
[Jhn 8:44 KJV]
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
This is what Studier does! If he can't perform mental feats of gymnastics to "nuance" a passage "to death", he avoids the passage. Great case in point is Jer 13:23 where to this day, he still refuses to give a straight up "yes" or "no" answer to the rhetorical question therein.
Yes, man does nothing bout the gift, rather he receives them and that is not a work and no boasting in it. For it is God's will to believe
those who received (lambanō ) ... as explained in the many, many pages in this thread, as well as above those who actively lay hold of Him.
He gave = (didōmi ) ... it is God Who gives the right to become children of God ... to those who receive the Lord Jesus Christ.
the right = (exousia ) ... (from 1537 /ek, "out from," which intensifies 1510 /eimí, "to be, being as a right or privilege") – authority, conferred power; delegated empowerment ("authorization") - HELPS Word-studies. The one who receives the Lord Jesus Christ is empowered ... God provides all that is necessary ...
to become = (ginomai ) ... Christ is the Son of God ... those who receive the Lord Jesus Christ are empowered to become sons of God ... become something they were not before they received the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ clarified that it is through faith in Him that believers become children of God ... as opposed to being of the lineage of Abraham.
sons of God = (teknon ) ... sons of God ... not servants, but a Father/child relationship ... and the next verse tells us the one who actively lays hold on the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who become sons of God ... are sons of God by birth
I would appreciate some expansion on these terms (didōmi , exousia , ginomai , teknon ) no rush ...
.
Yes we can.
Look into molinism, one plausible explanation that explains both free will and predestination/sovereignity. I think it does a decent job at it. The only downside of it is that it is not specifically mentioned in the Bible and is more of a philosophical construct, but consistent within the Bible nonetheless.
Look into molinism, one plausible explanation that explains both free will and predestination/sovereignity. I think it does a decent job at it. The only downside of it is that it is not specifically mentioned in the Bible and is more of a philosophical construct, but consistent within the Bible nonetheless.
Then what kind of faith is? Faith in idols? Demons? Self? Money? Fellow man? What kind of faith is a gift?
Ephesians 2:8-9 clarify that grace that saves is received by “faith”.
If we need to be made alive in order to have faith then we would have to be saved in Christ before having faith. The problem is, you cannot be in Christ without faith. The TULIP interpretation flips the order that is clearly seen in the text.
This is done in order to claim that faith must be a gift from a logical perspective but the Greek shows otherwise and there is no scripture which asserts clearly that "saving faith" has its origin and is transmitted by God.
Why would Christ Jesus speak well of someone for great faith, if such faith were a gift from God?
To do so would be attributing God’s glory to man.
It is simply inconceivable that God would have Jesus praising man for something He had gifted to him.
Christ Jesus attributed the great faith to the centurion, not God. Jesus also commended the woman with the daughter with the demon; “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.”
God does not make mistakes.
NEXT!