Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Blain said:
For those who advocate for free will can I get just one scripture that states we have that? just one?
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easy peasy who the lord sets free will be free indeed 🙂 but by his will,

But the free willers will say only if we want him to, accept they leave the part out that father hands them to the son, but the free willers will say only if we want him to , but they leave the part out that the father builds there heart up, but the free willers will say only if we want him to, but they leave the part out, that from birth there under the watch full eye of the father, who talks to them and pricks there conscience, and even then the free willers will say, well when I was a child I co was under the age of accountability , even then they leave out the part that they where born needing a saviour. And they had to be taught right from wrong, because apparently by the free willers definition there born with all knowledge of Good and evil, which they where not.

So really free will is a law unto its self.
 
Rufus said:
You have often represented God as being this great cosmic EOE (Equal Opportunity Employer) -- equality for all always. He gives the opportunity to each and every person on planet to exercise their efficacious "freewill" to accept or reject the gospel. God is reduced to a mere opportunity provider who can only act (save) those who want to be saved. God's salvation is 100% contingent upon the will of sinners, and so He only acts after an all-knowing God learns what their choices will be.
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Just because you prefer to think that is what I am saying does not give true representation of what I am saying. Show me a quote, not your perverted understanding.
 
Rufus said:
So...God's rescuing, saving, effectual grace results in goodness to those who believe, while it at the same time results in evil to those who don't believe. You have God's saving, effectual grace serving a dual purpose. His grace is both "yes" and "no". :rolleyes:
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You are assuming the grace God given in that moment is for the sole purpose of saving in that moment. There is a whole process of people receiving God's grace that leads to salvation before salvation is effected. There are those who reject that grace along the way and therefore are never given the grace of the Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation. The Romans 1 type springs to mind.

You keep making assumptions based on your own understanding. Stop putting my words in your world paradigm. One of the beautiful things about being created in God's image is our ability to be semi-transcendent. We can step out of our own shoes to some degree and put ourselves in the shoes of another. If we want to truly understand others, we have to do that sometimes. :)
 
Cameron143 said:
Again, no one has argued that making choices isn't related to the will. The argument is that the will isn't free. It is either slave to sin or slave to righteousness.
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Then you don't understand freedom.

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

... except in Cameron's world, he's just swapped out one set of chains for a different set of chains.
 
rogerg said:
a change from saved to unsaved is immediate not future as-in "are saved" - present tense. Scripture uses the word in both ways.
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@HeIsHere

I typed incorrectly - dumb mistake. Instead of "from unsaved to saved" I typed "from saved to unsaved". Have a sick dog and was
rushing to finish. Sorry for any confusion.
 
sawdust said:
If you think freedom is to be without restraint, then what you say is correct.

To try and say the Son, who has set us free indeed, is not real freedom is madness. One is either bound to sin or one is free in Christ. Freedom can only be freedom within the confines of authority. Anything outside authority is chaos.
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We are free from sin yes but one is then a made a willing slave to Christ when you submit to him and surrender unto him as your Lord you then place yourself in bondage of him as king

If you have submitted yourself to him you are not free in the sense you have made yourself a willing subject to Christ
 
sawdust said:
Then you don't understand freedom.

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

... except in Cameron's world, he's just swapped out one set of chains for a different set of chains.
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It depends out you look at the word slave lol.

A slave can be seen as the part that need the main part of an engine to make it work, in an engine it's called the slave cylinder 🤩
 
Blain said:
For those who advocate for free will can I get just one scripture that states we have that? just one?
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It has been stated the will is not free naturally, it is bound to sin. But God's grace changes that by meeting us with the grace and truth found in Christ and sets our will free momentarily by subduing the sin nature giving us the same opportunity to obey or disobey the truth presented just as Adam and Christ was free to choose. Adam chose to disobey, Christ chose to obey.
 
Jordon said:
It depends out you look at the word slave lol.

A slave can be seen as the part that need the main part of an engine to make it work, in an engine it's called the slave cylinder 🤩
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No mate, it depends on the word of God. If the Son sets you free, you are free, not this "sort of free" people are trying to peddle. Being a slave doesn't put one under some sort of compulsion whereby you can do no other thing than obey. If it were so, then none of us would sin and the term "slave rebellion" would be an oxymoron.
 
Blain said:
We are free from sin yes but one is then a made a willing slave to Christ when you submit to him and surrender unto him as your Lord you then place yourself in bondage of him as king

If you have submitted yourself to him you are not free in the sense you have made yourself a willing subject to Christ
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if only the free willer could realise what Jesus does to there will.

This little sea lion does 😂

 
Blain said:
We are free from sin yes but one is then a made a willing slave to Christ when you submit to him and surrender unto him as your Lord you then place yourself in bondage of him as king

If you have submitted yourself to him you are not free in the sense you have made yourself a willing subject to Christ
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And you have done that freely. :)

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Please people, stop trying to tell us freedom is not real freedom when the very word of God says you are made free in Christ.
 
sawdust said:
And you have done that freely. :)

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Please people, stop trying to tell us freedom is not real freedom when the very word of God says you are made free in Christ.
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Do you or do you not submit to Christ? Did you not surrender to him everything and make him your Lord?
 
Before answering my own question about what the Greatest Force for Good is in the universe, please indulge me for a little background info on why I ask this question.

Last year I was given a gift by a missionary team I support. They gave me my first ever Daily Devotional. The author's name is Paul David Tripp. (And I would heartily recommend this book to anyone.) Anyhoo...one night I'm reading this saint's insights into Jesus' agonizing experience in the Garden of Gethsemane and what struck him most about the account was the awesome Power that Jesus displayed internally in his character to resist his own will in order to accomplish his Father's will. Jesus was well aware of the unspeakable horrors that were mere hours away that he would be facing and coping with. Tripp rightly observed, that most believers when they think of Jesus' power, turn their minds primarily to external manifestations of divine power which Jesus displayed with his numerous miracles.

As I read and contemplated this author's thoughts, God also put a couple of passages in mind that led me to put a label on this awesome power. These texts were "Love never fails...Follow the way of love..." (1Cor 13:8a; 14:1a). And these two texts, in turn, opened a floodgate of other passages.

So...the answer to my question that has never been asked on this thread previously (to the best of my recollection), is that Agape Love is the Greatest Force for Good in this universe that has been corrupted by sin. Jesus' Agape Love for both his Father and His Father's sheep is what compelled Him to lay aside his own desires and will in order to fulfill the redemptive mission given to Him by the Father. At the Cross Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets

In the next couple of posts or so, I will flesh out this argument, so that many of us can see what the real Achilee's Heel to FWT is, and why FWT cannot possibly be true.
 
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Blain said:
Do you or do you not submit to Christ? Did you not surrender to him everything and make him your Lord?
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Jesus Christ is Lord whether I say so or not. I don't make Him Lord, the Father did that, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. :)

Did the Son set you free or are you still in bondage? Rhetorical question, don't expect you to answer that in public. :)
 
sawdust said:
Yeah, He sets it free like He sets free every other aspect of our being.
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Except when it doesn't the vast majority of times with unbelievers. Your god sets the will "free" to do even more evil! And this in turn means that the vast majority of God-rejecting, God-hating unbelievers will incur even worse judgment -- even though God knew in eternity they would never accept the gospel. Such people would have fared better if they had never heard the gospel, for their judgment and hell would have been a little bit more tolerable for them.
 
Rufus said:
Before answering my own question about what the Greatest Force for Good is in the universe, please indulge me for a little background info on why I ask this question.

Last year I was given a gift by a missionary team I support. They gave me my first ever Daily Devotional. The author's name is Paul David Tripp. (And I would heartily recommend this book to anyone.) Anyhoo...one night I'm reading this saint's insights into Jesus' agonizing experience in the Garden of Gethsemane and what struck him most about the account was the awesome Power that Jesus displayed internally in his character to resist his own will in order to accomplish his Father's will. Jesus was well aware of the unspeakable horrors that were mere hours away that he would be facing and coping with. Tripp rightly observed, that most believers when they think of Jesus' power, turn their minds primarily to external manifestations of divine power which Jesus displayed with his numerous miracles.

As I read and contemplated this author's thoughts, God also put a couple of passages in mind that led me to put a label on this awesome power. These texts were "Love never fails...Follow the way of love..." (1Cor 13:8a; 14:1a). And these two texts, in turn, opened a floodgate of other passages.

So...the answer to my question that has never been asked on this thread previously (to the best of my recollection), is that Agape Love is the Greatest Force for Good in this universe that has been corrupted by sin. Jesus' Agape Love for both his Father and His Father's sheep is what compelled Him to lay aside his own desires and will in order to fulfill the redemptive mission given to Him by the Father. At the Cross Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets

In the next couple of posts or so, I will flesh out this argument, so that many of us can see what the real Achilee's Heel to FWT is, and why FWT cannot possibly be true.
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Except that Jesus had more than agape love for His Father, He also had phileo (family) love.

What does the T stand for in FWT?
 
Rufus said:
Except when it doesn't the vast majority of times with unbelievers. Your god sets the will "free" to do even more evil! And this in turn means that the vast majority of God-rejecting, God-hating unbelievers will incur even worse judgment -- even though God knew in eternity they would never accept the gospel. Such people would have fared better if they had never heard the gospel, for their judgment and hell would have been a little bit more tolerable for them.
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Huh? No idea what you are on about. We have established men, apart from grace, are bound to sin so why should it be surprising they commit evil?

And He doesn't set the will free permanently until one is in Christ (saved) so your whole argument falls on it's face.

Let's face it. You really have no real idea of what I believe and why. You keep accusing me of stuff that has no place in my world view.

sigh

have a nice day Rufus. :)
 
sawdust said:
Then you don't understand freedom.

John 8:36
Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

... except in Cameron's world, he's just swapped out one set of chains for a different set of chains.
Click to expand...
Jesus sets us free FROM sin and death and frees us TO righteousness.
 
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