Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Did they wander all by themselves my dear sister

did you read what I wrote Jordon?

reneweddaybyday said:​

​

they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years ... and for those 40 years, God watched over them ​

and for those 40 years, God watched over them

.

 

[Magenta]

First there is the natural uneducated man then there is the highly educated scholarly man

cv5's reading of Scripture is laughable

It is wholesale denial of what is being taught between the difference of an indwelt person who has
the Spirit of God which gives understanding of Spiritual things, and one who does not have the
Spirit and does not understand. This is explicitly stated but foundational for FWers to deny.

He brings scholarly work to reject what the Bible teaches. No surprises there.

 

[Jordon]

did you read what I wrote Jordon?

reneweddaybyday said:​

​

they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years ... and for those 40 years, God watched over them ​

and for those 40 years, God watched over them

.

missed again for forty years he fed them inherent mercy for everlasting to ever lasting


Deuteronomy 10:19

New International Version



19 And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

 

[Genez]

Oh...I see. They spoiled you rotten. They made you lazy.

They were good teachers.

Good teachers can not afford to be lazy.

 

[Rufus]

Hello, FWers. I have another question for you re one of your favorite passages in all scripture (NOT!):

John 17:9
9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
NIV

Explain to me how the term "world" in this passage means all people therein w/o exception, since Jesus made two exceptions: The first one is for the Jewish believers in the above text and the second one is for the Gentile flock that would be brought into the kingdom through the preaching of the gospel by the Jews (v. 20). Jesus very clearly excluded both of the above groups He explicitly prayed for from the "world" in v.9.

Better get to work on these two problems (the other in post 27,679) with the Gr. term "kosmos"; for I have more extremely dicey problems waiting in the wings for you.

 

[cv5]

So what happen to those above 20yo? Were they eaten up by giants?

On the contrary:
-Pillar of cloud by day for shade and comfort
-Pillar of fire by night for protection from enemies
-40 years of Manna and quails
-Their shoes never wore out
-Their clothes never wore out
-Miraculous water springing from rocks

The generation that entered the land turned it all around and were obedience for the most part.

 

[Rufus]

They were good teachers.

Good teachers can not afford to be lazy.

Give your fingers and the top of your head a few B-12 shots, maybe that will wake them up so that you can search that big long chapter 14 in Luke. Apparently, you're not even familiar with the parable. And understandably so....

 

[reneweddaybyday]

yes I showed you the fathers mercy and love can also instruct the heart and strengthen the heart to have no mercy to unbelief.

I do not believe it is a good thing for God to harden the heart. I provided all the uses of the word sklērynō and showed you that it is not a good thing for God to harden the heart ... nor is it a good thing for people to harden their hearts.

I love you ... but you and I are not in agreement concerning this issue.

.

 

[cv5]

The word "might" does not appear in the text.

The words "might be saved" are translated from the Greek word sōzō, which means deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety). HELPS Word-studies

The key word in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 is the word "received", which is translated from the Greek word dechomai, which means to receive in a welcoming (receptive) way. 1209 (déxomai) is used of people welcoming God (His offers), like receiving and sharing in His salvation (1 Thes 2:13) and thoughts (Eph 6:17). [The personal element is emphasized with 1209 (déxomai) which accounts for it always being in the Greek middle voice. This stresses the high level of self-involvement (interest) involved with the "welcoming-receiving." 1209 (déxomai) occurs 59 times in the NT.] HELPS Word-studies.


In contrast, Paul wrote about the Thessalonians who received God's Word ...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And so we too constantly thank God that when you received God’s message that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human message, but as it truly is, God’s message, that is at work among you who believe..

the word "received" is translated from the Greek word paralambanō, from pará, "from close-alongside" and 2983 /lambánō, "aggressively take") – to take (receive) by showing strong personal initiative. HELPS Word-studies.

the word "accepted" is translated from the Greek word dechomai ... defined above.

Paul uses two words for receiving the Word: “receive” and “accepted.” “Received” is paralambano, which means “to receive from another,” but it is especially used in the New Testament of receiving a message or body of instruction or doctrine (cf. 1 Cor. 11:23; 15:1, 3; Gal. 1:9, 12 [2 times], Col. 2:6; 1 Thess. 2:13; 4:1; 2 Thess. 3:6). This word stresses the fact the message was delivered to them and they heard it with their own ears in a teaching environment.​

​

...​

​

“You accepted” is dechomai, which means to receive in the sense of “welcome.” The first word, Paralambano, means the message was delivered to them. The second word, dechomai, means they welcomed it. The first refers to “the hearing of the ear” while the second refers to “the hearing of the heart.” But just how did they welcome the message? This is stated negatively first, perhaps for emphasis, and then positively.​

https://bible.org/book/export/html/6300​

My understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:10 is that those who received not the love of the truth ... when truth was revealed to them, they had no desire for truth; therefore, truth was rejected.

for those who desire the truth, there is no "might" or "maybe" about it ... if the gospel is believed, salvation is the result ... not "maybe" or "might" be saved. According to Rom 1:16, for those who believe, the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. period.

.

Good stuff there.
Also see Luke 19:6 re: Zacchaeus "hypodechomai" derivation G5264....

 

[Solitude]

 

[Magenta]

Okay, FWers gird up the loins your dark, web-filled attics and answer the questions that will follow these three passages:

1 John 2:15-17
15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world — the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does — comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
NIV

And,

James 4:4-6
4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely? 6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:

"God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble."
NIV

And,

2 Cor 6:14-7:1
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

17 "Therefore come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.

Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,

says the Lord Almighty."
NIV

You FWers believe that Jn 3:16 teaches that God love the entire world in the distributive/quantitative sense whereas Reformed folks believe that God loves the world in a qualified/qualitative sense. But if you're right, then explain to me why John commands believers to not love the very world that you allege God does? Why are God's chosen ones commanded to not love the world in the distributive sense, as God supposedly does?

But it gets even worse! If any saint loves the world the way God supposedly does then that love for the world turns into hatred for God! And this makes perfectly good sense considering that the ungodly world is very much unlike God! Anyone who truly loves God cannot and will not love that which is entirely antithetical to his thrice, holy character. It's no wonder at all that Christ explicitly omitted this God-hating world from his High Priestly prayer (Jn 17:9). And it also nicely explains Jesus' remarks about how there's no greater love for another human being than one lay down his life for his friends (Jn 15:13), notwithstanding the seemingly contradictory Pauline teaching in Rom 5:8-10; . Jesus clearly was not eternally predestined to die for his enemies but was predestined to die for all the friends the Father gave to him in eternity.

Plus Reformed understanding of the relationship between the world and God's covenant people is one of utter SEPARATION. God never intended for His covenant people to fellowship with and love the ungodly world, as I have often proved with numerous scriptures. God never intended that his saints marry unbelievers. God never intended for believers to cozy up to unbelievers who have nothing in common with each other. Come out from them and be separate!

So, how is that God can supposedly love the ungodly in the distributive sense and EQUALLY as much along with his saints, but simultaneously forbids his saints from emulating Him!? Explain this very awkward dichotomy -- if any of you feel up to the task.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.

The Son gives life to whom He wishes.

 

[Jordon]

I do not believe it is a good thing for God to harden the heart. I provided all the uses of the word sklērynō and showed you that it is not a good thing for God to harden the heart ... nor is it a good thing for people to harden their hearts.

I love you ... but you and I are not in agreement concerning this issue.

.

Your not believing hardening a heart is also strengthening it to show no mercy to unbelief.

For instance you could say i will love the foreigners in my land, but if they don't love after being loved I will strengthen (garden) and harden) my heart to there unbelief.

This is what God did to there hearts in Deuteronomy 7 and judges 7 the bread from heaven and numbers represented why they his called where left behind as they had his will in them,

But by there own free will they rejected his will inside of them.

The physical extrusion

 

[cv5]

First there is the natural uneducated man then there is the highly educated scholarly man

cv5's reading of Scripture is laughable

It is wholesale denial of what is being taught between the difference of an indwelt person who has
the Spirit of God which gives understanding of Spiritual things, and one who does not have the
Spirit and does not understand. This is explicitly stated but foundational for FWers to deny.

He brings scholarly work to reject what the Bible teaches. No surprises there.

@studier took a wrecking ball to your erroneous position on the matter and made it a smoking ruin of it. Effortlessly and several times to boot.

Your hopelessly faulty understanding (and your mantra-esque ceaseless chanting) of 1 Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 3:10-18 is not enough to dumbfound any Biblically savvy person on this thread lady. Evidently the only person you're fooling is yourself. And maybe a couple of glee club members.

 

[Genez]

Give your fingers and the top of your head a few B-12 shots, maybe that will wake them up so that you can search that big long chapter 14 in Luke. Apparently, you're not even familiar with the parable. And understandably so....

You have spent more energy avoiding giving a good answer, than simply giving it in the first place.
Maybe.... I am mistaking obstinance, for laziness.

 

[cv5]

You have spent more energy avoiding giving a good answer, than simply giving it in the first place.
Maybe.... I am mistaking obstinance, for laziness.

How about plain old-fashioned cluelessness?

 

[Magenta]

Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For
they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

... because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh,
but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,
he does not belong to Christ.

 

[Jordon]

@studier took a wrecking ball to your erroneous position on the matter and made it a smoking ruin of it. Effortlessly and several times to boot.

Your hopelessly faulty understanding (and your mantra-esque ceaseless chanting) of 1 Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 3:10-18 is not enough to dumbfound any Biblically savvy person on this thread lady. Evidently the only person you're fooling is yourself. And maybe a couple of glee club members.

I still don't see an answer as to why Calvin taught obedience to the father

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Your not believing hardening a heart is also strengthening it to show no mercy to unbelief.

I do not want to show no mercy to unbelief ...

some people are in unbelief because they are ignorant of Scripture ...

some people are in unbelief because of wrong teaching ...

some people are in unbelief because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... they reject the truth of Scripture ...

If this is the case, I want to share God's Word so God can bring increase.

I don't have to make people believe ... I only have to plant / water. God gives the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

My only responsibility is to share the rightly divided Word of truth ...

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I sure am thankful to the folks who witnessed to me before I was born again.

.

 

[Jordon]

You have spent more energy avoiding giving a good answer, than simply giving it in the first place.
Maybe.... I am mistaking obstinance, for laziness.

I've had over at least 100 avoidances of you.

It's ok tho because now I know how your mind works

It basically mostly most of time

Bashes the keyboard

 

[Jordon]

I do not want to show no mercy to unbelief ...

some people are in unbelief because they are ignorant of Scripture ...

some people are in unbelief because of wrong teaching ...

some people are in unbelief because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... they reject the truth of Scripture ...

If this is the case, I want to share God's Word so God can bring increase.

I don't have to make people believe ... I only have to plant / water. God gives the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

My only responsibility is to share the rightly divided Word of truth ...

1 Corinthians 3:10-11 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I sure am thankful to the folks who witnessed to me before I was born again.

.

This can be a calling to ,

You do not want to show no mercy to unbelief means the same as not showing mercy to unbelief if your called, God will strengthen the heart to both.