Can we experience curses today?

[pinebeach]

It's okay to disagree. But I believe the scriptures speak for themselves.

Yes absolutely they do. That is why I wonder where you got the idea that curses are no longer in effect if you are a believer. Scripture does not back that up. I included the passage from Romans 8 and you ignore it. In fact, you say you don't know why I posted it even though it is 100% attuned to your op. Those verses illustrate the fact that ALL of creation is waiting for redemption; it's not just about the human creation. How can you read that, let alone study it, and conclude that after the flood there were no more curses in effect from the garden?

I didn't ignore, I refuted your interpretation.

Well no you did not. Ignoring scripture I posted is not refuting. You come back with just more of the same. You do not address the scriptures I posted.

Brush off? Like what? To be honest I'm not even sure what you are referring to. What is unbiblical? That Christ became the curse? That the origin of curses are both God and demonic or only God? What exactly are you not understanding? I know you had an issue with land curse but have yet to address Genesis 8. Instead you have reverted to red herrings, strawmen, and ad hominems. But I'm glad you find humor in the Bible being read in it's totality.

It sounds like you are trying to divert from what I actually said. I explained with detail why your post is not biblical and you just brush it off. I do not have issues with scripture as you are trying to say. I don't even have an issue with the fact you try to twist what I said. I do have concerns with the fact you do not reply to the FACTUAL acount of the actual story of Balaam. I addressed Genesis 8 several times. Reading the Bible does not make you a scholar or correct. There is no humor there since you chose to point out the fact you read the entire thing as though you now have authority over everyone else here that disagrees with your op.

In one part yes, the goal is to teach. I have discussed the last 19 posts. So again not sure what you mean. Just as Romans 8. You just posted it with no understanding of why you posted it. What was the reason or point?

That is not true. Anyone can read what I said about it. What do you hope to achieve by saying something about what I wrote that is not true? I can never understand why people think they can get away with pretending another person did not say what in fact they did say, and in some detail.

Oh was this the point? You do understand that the OP was about our spiritual nature right? The condition of the soul?

Your op:
Can we experience curses today? The op was about curses. You can talk about the other topics in another thread if you like.

I believe I understand the confusion now. We are having a categorical error. The OP was describing what Christ has done in us, not what we must deal with around us. Obviously the things and people still affected by the curse, will be around us.

This place isn't even considered home as a child of God, we are passing through as ambassadors or sojourners.

This is simply a contrived distraction. Not working though.

just fine? Lol okay. Literally my post ended about needing Christ to be protected.

Your op is short on facts as found in scripture.

Another strawman. I never said this

Perhaps you could try explaining why putting on the armor as described in Ephesians is a strawman?

 

[Blade]

View attachment 281066

Can we experience curses today?

If we can experience blessings are we equally open to curses as well?

What is a curse?

Curses- consequences for disobedience to God’s commands or for sinning against Him.

There are no other curses that hold any power. Witches, demons, wishes, or objects do not have the power to enact a curse. Only God.

Numbers 22:16-18 English Standard Version

16 And they came to Balaam and said to him, “Thus says Balak the son of Zippor: ‘Let nothing hinder you from coming to me, for I will surely do you great honor, and whatever you say to me I will do. Come, curse this people for me.’” But Balaam answered and said to the servants of Balak, “Though Balak were to give me his house full of silver and gold, I could not go beyond the command of the Lord my God to do less or more.

Balak thought he could gain a supernatural advantage so he went to a non-Israelite prophet named Balaam.

God told Balaam the non-Israelite prophet that only God Himself had the power to call forth curses. Balaam could do no less or more.

Galatians 3:10 English Standard Version
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does
not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."

If you rely on the law, you are cursed. Not because the law is evil but the contrary, the law is holy. To be free of sin is to abide in the law 100%. It is impossible for us in the current state. So God had a response to the curse.

Galatians 3:13 English Standard Version
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is
everyone who is hanged on a tree"—

Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law, the curse of sin, by becoming a curse for us. By the sacrifice of Christ the anointed one, we are redeemed from the curse and judgment we deserve.

Out of context curse for example:

Malachi 3:9-10
New International Version

9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

This curse was directed at Israel. The storehouse was in the temple. The food was for the Levites and priests. This is a verse about tithing but not applicable to the Church. The Church is not under the same laws and covenant. We are commanded to be cheerful givers (offerings not a tithe). Givers of finances, time, skills, and resources. The early church voluntarily gave what was needed and the only time the Holy Spirit got angry was when a couple lied, falsely gave, but kept some of the money.

You are not under a curse if you fail to give the 10%, 15%, or 20%.

You are not under a curse just because some pagan devil worshipper chants it.

You are not under a curse for anything except not having Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Can we experience curses today?

Yes, if not under the redeeming power of Christ.

No, for all who abide in Christ.

Spot on. According to Gods word we can not. Were bought with a price paid in full with on sacrifice Jesus Christ. Theres this song that talks about how long does it take before that lie you speak becomes truth. We've lived in places when witches would put stuff in front of our door.. never did anything it can't. Had friend trying to show us something... I told him it will not work on me. He was shocked he could not believe. Classic Peter and John.. "why look at us as if we did this by our own power.. that name faith in that name healed this man"

The only way the enemy can touch you is if you allow it or your playing in some kind of sin and won't repent. So get over it.. you belong to the one true Great I am. Your His and no one touches His kids

 

[pinebeach]

I would refer you to my posts 13 and 16 with regards to Balaam. He was not a prophet as we understand what prophets are. Since I am now drawing attention to this post, you cannot continue to say he was a prophet. The Bible says he was for hire and could curse or bless. That is not a prophet in any sense of the word. He was spiritually in the dark and not sent of God to Israel.

Start there and then try Romans 8 again which expressly states we are anything but unaffected by curses.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Spot on. According to Gods word we can not. Were bought with a price paid in full with on sacrifice Jesus Christ. Theres this song that talks about how long does it take before that lie you speak becomes truth. We've lived in places when witches would put stuff in front of our door.. never did anything it can't. Had friend trying to show us something... I told him it will not work on me. He was shocked he could not believe. Classic Peter and John.. "why look at us as if we did this by our own power.. that name faith in that name healed this man"

The only way the enemy can touch you is if you allow it or you're playing in some kind of sin and won't repent. So get over it.. you belong to the one true Great I am. Your His and no one touches His kids

Amen brother. That is the testimony of walking in the Spirit. Spiritual warfare is indeed real but we also give it more power than it has. It may attack us, but it can never defeat what is living in us.

Matthew 10:28, which states, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

No one can kill the soul of the Spirit within. Praise God.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes absolutely they do. That is why I wonder where you got the idea that curses are no longer in effect if you are a believer. Scripture does not back that up. I included the passage from Romans 8 and you ignore it. In fact, you say you don't know why I posted it even though it is 100% attuned to your op. Those verses illustrate the fact that ALL of creation is waiting for redemption; it's not just about the human creation. How can you read that, let alone study it, and conclude that after the flood there were no more curses in effect from the garden?



Well no you did not. Ignoring scripture I posted is not refuting. You come back with just more of the same. You do not address the scriptures I posted.



It sounds like you are trying to divert from what I actually said. I explained with detail why your post is not biblical and you just brush it off. I do not have issues with scripture as you are trying to say. I don't even have an issue with the fact you try to twist what I said. I do have concerns with the fact you do not reply to the FACTUAL acount of the actual story of Balaam. I addressed Genesis 8 several times. Reading the Bible does not make you a scholar or correct. There is no humor there since you chose to point out the fact you read the entire thing as though you now have authority over everyone else here that disagrees with your op.



That is not true. Anyone can read what I said about it. What do you hope to achieve by saying something about what I wrote that is not true? I can never understand why people think they can get away with pretending another person did not say what in fact they did say, and in some detail.



Your op:
Can we experience curses today? The op was about curses. You can talk about the other topics in another thread if you like.



This is simply a contrived distraction. Not working though.



Your op is short on facts as found in scripture.



Perhaps you could try explaining why putting on the armor as described in Ephesians is a strawman?

Yes absolutely they do. That is why I wonder where you got the idea that curses are no longer in effect if you are a believer. Scripture does not back that up. I included the passage from Romans 8 and you ignore it. In fact, you say you don't know why I posted it even though it is 100% attuned to your op. Those verses illustrate the fact that ALL of creation is waiting for redemption; it's not just about the human creation. How can you read that, let alone study it, and conclude that after the flood there were no more curses in effect from the garden?

I didn't ignore it but didn't understand the relation because of the categorical error. You are talking about creation. I was talking about the soul. The Christian nature within. How Christ set us free from the curse.





That is not true. Anyone can read what I said about it. What do you hope to achieve by saying something about what I wrote that is not true? I can never understand why people think they can get away with pretending another person did not say what in fact they did say, and in some detail.

Your op is short on facts as found in scripture.

If you say so.

Perhaps you could try explaining why putting on the armor as described in Ephesians is a strawman?

Because I never said anything about that evil can not attack us. But you are free to quote the OP where you think I did.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I would refer you to my posts 13 and 16 with regards to Balaam. He was not a prophet as we understand what prophets are. Since I am now drawing attention to this post, you cannot continue to say he was a prophet. The Bible says he was for hire and could curse or bless. That is not a prophet in any sense of the word. He was spiritually in the dark and not sent of God to Israel.

Start there and then try Romans 8 again which expressly states we are anything but unaffected by curses.

Regardless of prophet or divination that wasn't even the point. The point was that God is the only one who can curse. Balaam was not a prophet in the sense of a Jewish prophet that was what I meant by non-jewish prophet. He was known for his pagan attempts at cursing.

Romans 8:24 we are saved from the curse hallelujah first fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I would refer you to my posts 13 and 16 with regards to Balaam. He was not a prophet as we understand what prophets are. Since I am now drawing attention to this post, you cannot continue to say he was a prophet. The Bible says he was for hire and could curse or bless. That is not a prophet in any sense of the word. He was spiritually in the dark and not sent of God to Israel.

Start there and then try Romans 8 again which expressly states we are anything but unaffected by curses.

So it really has me wondering what curses still affect you that Christ has not redeemed you from?

 

[pinebeach]

I didn't ignore it but didn't understand the relation because of the categorical error. You are talking about creation. I was talking about the soul. The Christian nature within. How Christ set us free from the curse.

So we're back to that, are we? Perhaps refer to your own op in which you ask if we can experience curses today. Actually I referred to the curses over all of creation. If you live on this planet, you are liviing in that reality; the earth, women in childbirth and so on. We are set free from the curse of the law.

There is no 'categorical' error. Do you chop up the Bible you just read into the parts you believe and those you are skeptical about? You have several times now said that we are set free from the curse. In your mind, what curse do you think that is?

 

[pinebeach]

Regardless of prophet or divination that wasn't even the point. The point was that God is the only one who can curse. Balaam was not a prophet in the sense of a Jewish prophet that was what I meant by non-jewish prophet. He was known for his pagan attempts at cursing.

Romans 8:24 we are saved from the curse hallelujah first fruits of the Spirit.

Yes it is. And the reason that it is would be because you state only God can curse but scripture does not agree with that belief.

From your op:

God told Balaam the non-Israelite prophet that only God Himself had the power to call forth curses. Balaam could do no less or more.

Again, Balaam was not a prophet as the scriptures I posted from Numbers indicate. They also tell us that Balak wanted to hire Balaam because he was known for his ability to curse (sans God) I don't think you actually know too much about curses, what they are, how they work and the fact that ignoring these things are harmful to people.

 

[pinebeach]

So it really has me wondering what curses still affect you that Christ has not redeemed you from?

Non sequitor

 

[pinebeach]

Romans 8:24 we are saved from the curse hallelujah first fruits of the Spirit.

What curse do you refer to here? You seem to think that is some kind of magical formula.

Now let's keep it in context:

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So we're back to that, are we? Perhaps refer to your own op in which you ask if we can experience curses today. Actually I referred to the curses over all of creation. If you live on this planet, you are liviing in that reality; the earth, women in childbirth and so on. We are set free from the curse of the law.

There is no 'categorical' error. Do you chop up the Bible you just read into the parts you believe and those you are skeptical about? You have several times now said that we are set free from the curse. In your mind, what curse do you think that is?

Again categorical error. I defined my subject as Curses- consequences for disobedience to God’s commands or for sinning against Him.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes it is. And the reason that it is would be because you state only God can curse but scripture does not agree with that belief.

From your op:


Again, Balaam was not a prophet as the scriptures I posted from Numbers indicate. They also tell us that Balak wanted to hire Balaam because he was known for his ability to curse (sans God) I don't think you actually know too much about curses, what they are, how they work and the fact that ignoring these things are harmful to people.

Wrong. Do you realize how much pagan practices was going on at the time. Do you remember Elijah and the prophets of Baal? He just laughed at them. No true power in false gods. Balaam was just like these false prophets. He put on a good show.

Actually it us you that teaches hurt. If Christ paid the price, why tell people they are cursed if they do not hold the law. Unless that isn't your point, but that was the point of the OP as I defined cursed.

I wasn't talking about the fallen world or the curses in unbelievers. I was talking about those in Christ are not judged by curses. Simple. Stop making up things I wasn't even talking about. It was silly at first but now becoming annoying and troll-like.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

What curse do you refer to here? You seem to think that is some kind of magical formula.

Now let's keep it in context:

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

I guess you are talking about the fall as a curse. Context would have me ask are you saved presently or not?

 

[pinebeach]

Again categorical error. I defined my subject as Curses- consequences for disobedience to God’s commands or for sinning against Him.

Oh please. Some of the worst backpeddling I've seen around here and that is saying alot.

 

[pinebeach]

I guess you are talking about the fall as a curse. Context would have me ask are you saved presently or not?

Well guess again. Context of what exactly?

 

[pinebeach]

Wrong. Do you realize how much pagan practices was going on at the time. Do you remember Elijah and the prophets of Baal? He just laughed at them. No true power in false gods. Balaam was just like these false prophets. He put on a good show.

Actually it us you that teaches hurt. If Christ paid the price, why tell people they are cursed if they do not hold the law. Unless that isn't your point, but that was the point of the OP as I defined cursed.

I wasn't talking about the fallen world or the curses in unbelievers. I was talking about those in Christ are not judged by curses. Simple. Stop making up things I wasn't even talking about. It was silly at first but now becoming annoying and troll-like.

It's how many pagan practices WERE going on. Do you not understand that the same thing is still going on today? I think your forgot that Elijah ran off into the desert after the event with the prophets of Baal. It is noteworthy how you select certain passages to try and fortify what you say.

I am still wondering just what it is you mean when you say we are saved from the curse. What curse do you mean? Listen, tomorrow if I have time I will be happy to clarify these things for you since you seem to want to avoid that question. Now you mention being 'judged' by curses. Yeah I will try to make that simple for you too.

You question my salvation coming close to saying I am not a believer. That, is the behavior that this forum does not support. Now it's troll like behavior that you asign to me. I can well believe that you are annoyed though.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It's how many pagan practices WERE going on. Do you not understand that the same thing is still going on today? I think your forgot that Elijah ran off into the desert after the event with the prophets of Baal. It is noteworthy how you select certain passages to try and fortify what you say.

I am still wondering just what it is you mean when you say we are saved from the curse. What curse do you mean? Listen, tomorrow if I have time I will be happy to clarify these things for you since you seem to want to avoid that question. Now you mention being 'judged' by curses. Yeah I will try to make that simple for you too.

You question my salvation coming close to saying I am not a believer. That, is the behavior that this forum does not support. Now it's troll like behavior that you asign to me. I can well believe that you are annoyed though.

Not even what I said. I was asking you what curse do you still believe you are under in relation to salvation. If you read you would see that. It had nothing of an attack. But I can see this is immaturity and toxic. I'll respond to others.

 

[pinebeach]

Not even what I said. I was asking you what curse do you still believe you are under in relation to salvation. If you read you would see that. It had nothing of an attack. But I can see this is immaturity and toxic. I'll respond to others.

Perhaps the question is actually why are you so anxious about actually discussing a topic you started and why have you tried to create the illusion I am not saved or that I believe I am under a curse? I have nothing I need to prove to you, yet you are going out of your way to make things personal.

You have not answered questions I asked you, the main one being what curse is it that you think we are no longer under?. Probably most people would state that would be the curse of the law, which is of course, is the right answer. You continue to perpetuate the
misconception that Balaam was a prophet of God that just did not happen to be Jewish. You included him in your op; I have no vested interest in what you believe, but I will always try to correct error. I won't apologize for that either.

It's a shame you have decided that the best way to deal with someone, me in this case, who continues to question your op, is an annoyance to be dealt with by trying to change your op and simply ignoring what I actually say and inserting some red herring that is not fooling anyone. I guess you are just not used to questions. Questions are good. But, like you admitted, you are here to teach actually so you will have to pardon my doubt as to your ability to do so.

I am not going to bother to get back to you despite saying I would tomorrow. This further rude comment from you proves it's pointless. While not everyone agrees with what you wrote, as can be seen on the first page, I seem to be the only one trying to get you to have a closer look at what scripture says about your topic.

I'll respond to others

Right. You do that then. I can now understand why others who disagree with your position never engaged in further exchange with you. I cannot say I have learned nothing in 'talking' with you.

 

[pinebeach]

Again you failed to explain what curse was lifted in Genesis 8 on the land.

Just this little nugget here. I said no such thing and have no idea what you are getting at and I'm not sure you do either.

Genesis 8:21 end's the cursed land of Genesis 3.

Well that clears it up. You were talking about your belief.