Calvinists are preaching a false message .
- Thread starter throughfaith
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Salvation was determined to God's chosen, before and after Christ Yeshua's death on the cross. It was determined before Christ Yeshua's Soul's visit to hades to release the believers from hades and to go to the Paradise of His Father's Heaven that same day of His death at the cross. Thereafter, on the third day, Christ Yeshua's Soul was reunified with His glorified body at His bodily resurrection to this earth, before His subsequent glorified body's ascension to Heaven forty days later:
Matthew 8 (New King James Version)
11And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
Revelation 5 (New King James Version)
9And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made [d]us kings[e] and priests to our God;
And [f]we shall reign on the earth.”
All of God's chosen was predetermined by God's plan of salvation of chosen humanity, to be handed their gift of their measure of faith during their lifetimes, to be drawn by the Father through the working of the Holy Spirit and by the price paid by the Son, and to be saved by the gift of the righteous God's merciful salvation, before God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit laid the foundations of the world.
CORRECT.
And (if we're talking about the same verse), it literally reads "slain FROM [apo]" NOT "written BEFORE [pro]"... the esv (and others) does not translate Rev13:8 according to the Greek.
Like you say, "FROM" and "BEFORE" (the foundation of the world) are INDEED completely DISTINCT THINGS, said of completely distinct items (and persons).
It is God that is being referred to.. You can't ordain yourself.. or in English people now understand:
New International Version
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
It is God doing the appointing. The Lord.
You have both here - God appointing and the human response is to believe.
Agreed, ALL GLORY for chosen humanity's salvation GOES TO righteous, merciful GOD, AND to GOD THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT ALONE, not to any man's notion of his own fallible belief system, that might be a belief today, but not a belief tomorrow.
Romans 9 (New King James Version)
22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Of course it is:
Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
so how can you say this:
That Jesus ”Die(d) to save” is not a Bible phrase or concept (your own words)?
Are you not one of the many????
If God's chosen people's salvation was to be determined by their own fallible, changeable belief system, it would not have been a certain salvation as determined by God, but a man-made salvation that could vanish in thin air, unlike the eternal gift of salvation from God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, through God's eternal gift of faith for His eternally chosen people FROM God's foundation of the world:
Matthew 13 (New King James Version)
20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13 (New King James Version)
20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Tasso .
Ordained .
Outline of Biblical Usage:
- to put in order, to station
- to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
- to assign (appoint) a thing to one
- to appoint, ordain, order
- to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
- to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon
- to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
' Died ....to....save ' Anywhere ? Yes he died for our sins and not our sins only ,but the sins of the whole world. This is not ' died to save ' .No one was saved when he did this .
Hi throughfaith,
Thanks for the meaning of ordained. I am sure we are all aware of what the word means. However, we are discussing who does the ordaining. Scripture is very clear it is the Lord God.
As I previously stated:
It is God that is being referred to.. You can't ordain yourself.. or in English people now understand:
New International Version
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
It is God doing the appointing. The Lord.
You have both here - God appointing and the human response is to believe.
Could you show where it says God ordained them please ? , I.ll wait .
What it SAYS is THEY chose to hear the word of the Lord . The whole chapter is THEM choosing and the Jews not choosing .
Can anyone else notice why calvinists don't believe what the verses actually SAY but rather what they believe the verse TEACHES ?
Agreed.
That is indeed the CONTEXT.
And the definition you had supplied works with either the Middle Voice or the Passive Voice, which are the choices showing here, in the verse: Acts 13:48 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com)
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the WORD OF GOD should first have been SPOKEN to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48¶And when the Gentiles HEARD this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49¶And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
Could you highlight where it SAYS 'God ' ordained them please ?