Then do you believe that man is the one who moves first in his personal salvation?
Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace
- Thread starter IsaiahA
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Then do you believe that man is the one who moves first in his personal salvation?
Non of us can WILL the punishment out of existence. We all must be like the tax collector and call out to God for his mercy..because we can not save ourselves.
I am confused
I said God moved first
then you ask me if I believe that man moved first?
can you explain why you would ask me such a question when i stated otherwise?
Come again??????... Are you saying that we lack free will just because we do not possess Godlike sovereignty?
There you go again, completely ignoring the points I made in 1. and 2. Can't have a conversation like this. You are making it pointless.
The definition was from the Oxford Dictionary.
I did not ignore anything my friend. I just do not agree with your points, and responded as to why.
and I also showed I did not agree with the dictionary defenition also..
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and now it is our move to decide what we will do with Jesus.
You said it was in the middle that we don't agree. Perhaps you should define the middle.
Then I am asking you, to give your reason for disagreement. Not just some blanket statement. How else can I determine where we part company?
For your convenience - here it is again:
This is the common definition in most dictionaries. It varies from the philosophical definition slightly. However, the two major points here are: 1) To be free of the constraint of necessity. It's pretty easy to see that our will won't fit that description. Our will is influenced by necessity. By necessity, because we must carry out certain choices in order to survive. Additionally, our choices are limited by our means. In Scripture, our choices are limited by our fallen nature. We love sin. We are slaves of sin. Therefore, our will is constrained by our nature, our authority and our means. 2) Whether we are constrained by "fate" is arguable.
Therefore, man has a will - he may chose - but it is not free. It is constrained.
Well if I said it is God that moves first. It is not that
So again, why did you ask if I thought it was man who moved first?
I am not sure what the middle has to do with yu completely ignoring what I said, then asking as if I did not say it.
the middle is how we get from the point God moves to the point when we are saved..
That sir is not an answer. it is a Bible verse, of which gives no answer to the question posed.
Could you be a little more specific. Your answered the middle question but I can't tell where you are in Biblical timing.
Maybe I should ask you, where do you see God moving first and in what way?
No you did not.
We are discussing whether our will should be called "free".
My two points were proof it should not. How then do you counter that argument specifically.
And I showed you why I called my will free multiple times I even countered the defenition you gave by saying I act freely out of necessity or fate all the time, and I am either blessed by those choices or I sufffer because of them
I did not demand you agree with me, You do not that is obvious
It does not mean I did not answer your question.
You have to get off the mindset that because someone disagrees with you. Does nt mean they have not answered you or listened to you.
God moves first in many ways..
the word
the holy spirit
his creation (romans 1)
people he has put in my life
I can not just start with one things, it was many things..
Rather simplistic really, the freedom of the individual will varies from moment to moment, situation to situation, and from person to person.
If one is able to state "I could have chosen and done otherwise" they had freedom of will in that situation.
That aside, we do know that scriptures teaches people are capable of being persuaded of the truth of the Gospel.
That sir is the answer. It is a Bible verse, which gives the answer to the question posed.
This is where someone needs to say that God lets us know that we are loved and forgiven
I experienced this in a very profound way when I was at or nearing one of the lowest points of my
life, feeling so broken and like such a failure and pretty hopeless and in a lot of emotional pain.
Although I did not believe in that God at the time, so it is one of those things that are a bit paradoxical.
I had gone to a neighbourhood church around Passover at the end of my marriage because they
were showing a movie based on the gospel of Luke, and I was curious to know Who Jesus was.
I did not leave with understanding of Who Jesus was(/is), but I did leave with the knowledge
that God loved me and forgave me even when I could not love or forgive myself, and that was
something I treasured, even as I thought, it's too bad it had to happen in a church -
Along with the experience of His love and forgiveness being imparted to me was also the knowledge that
He knew and understood all of how I had ended up where I was, and that I was undeserving of His love.
Not in a way that was shaming or to make me feel guilty. Just a knowing that I truly was unworthy.
I thought a lot about Jesus right after that, but it was many more years before I came to believe.