By Works

[Guojing]

Is killer need to repent to be forgiven or not?

Repent means change of mind. By believing that Christ died for your sins 2000 years ago and rose again as a sign that you are forever justified in the eyes of God, he is already repenting.

 

[Jackson123]

Repent means change of mind. By believing that Christ died for your sins 2000 years ago and rose again as a sign that you are forever justified in the eyes of God, he is already repenting.

Is he need to change his mind and stop killing?

 

[Guojing]

Is he need to change his mind and stop killing?

I believe he will stop killing.

Anyway the justice system in most countries is such that, once you are caught once, you won’t have a chance to repeat that

 

[Chester]

So because you enjoy the work, you have no problem believing it’s also necessary for salvation?

LOL! there you go again, as I said earlier, trying to corner people (now you are doing it to me) into believing in works for salvation.

But, I will answer. I do not believe it is "necessary to do good works" to be justified (saved) before God. Salvation is by God's grace through faith, not of works.

What if it’s a work that you don’t enjoy, like not being able to buy and sell stuff?

Any work done for the kingdom of God brings a deep joy to the spirit: If as a believer I cannot "buy and sell stuff" (I assume you are talking of the the mark of the beast?), I will have a joy of God through the time of trials - PTL! (Do you think it would be more enjoyable to keep "buying and selling stuff" and then to burn in hellfire forever?!)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God will not force anyone to revive him against his will

That would make him a dictator not a god of love

I understand that you have a statement to make supporting your belief, but why not use the scriptures to support your belief.

You did not respond with your interpretation on the scriptures that I gave you telling how God forces the will of man to do his will.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Look at what this is in reference to:

It is written, That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us (1 John 1:3).

What did they see?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

And verse 8 was written for those who would deny having any sin to need to be cleansed by Christ.

I have not done so.

I have confessed my sins and he was faithful and just to forgive me of my sins.

Now I can claim this scripture as a faithful obedient follower:

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not sin (1 John 5:18).

How do you explain Romans 7:14-25? Had Paul been born of God?

The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14 will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.

Only the person, such as Paul, who has been born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will repent of breaking a spiritual law

When we have been born again, and commit a sin, we lose our fellowship with God until we repent.

You are not harmonizing the scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Your right, no one can stop him, but he will also not overrule anyone free will. Look at what he said to,jerusalem. They did not Let him take her under his wing they were not willing

his will is all who see and BELIEVE shall have eternal life.

yet he died for all

Your belief will not harmonize, if you consider all of the scriptures. You are misinterpreting many small words in the scriptures, such as, all, as many as, world, perish, in, of, whosoever, salvation, etc.

The inspired scriptures were not written for the purpose of instructing mankind on how to be delivered eternally. They do explain how that man/women are delivered eternally by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind.

The scriptures are directed to God's children, as instructions for living their lives as they sojourn here in this world

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". There are many deliverances that God's children receive as they sojourn here in this world. Then there is an eternal deliverance by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind.

The natural man, until he has been regenerated, cannot see and believe in the things of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

To me, everyone, whether TULIP or otherwise, subscribed to some form of limited atonement.

For the otherwise group, our view of the atonement is that, it is unlimited in scope but limited by our free choice. Every human can be saved but not everyone will be saved because we still need to exercise faith to accept the gift, thus we rule out the concept of universal salvation.

Those from the TULIP group, however, believes that Jesus only died for a limited group that was chosen by God the Father, before the foundation of the world. This is called the elected group and they believe that only this group of people can respond to the preaching and accept Jesus as their savior.

If you are not part of the elected group, you have no ability to respond to the message. Seen from this perspective, the idea of limited atonement has the view that atonement is unlimited in the sense that the grace is irresistible to the elect, but limited in its scope as it applies only to the elected group

You believe that the natural man, before he has been regenerated, has to exercise faith to accept the FREE gift of grace.

I believe the scriptures teach that the natural man, before he has been regenerated, only has the "faith" of mankind, and his accomplishments, and thinks the things of the Spirit are foolishness, and does not discern them, according to 1 Cor 2:14.

Eph 2 explains that the natural man is spiritually dead, and unable to exercise spiritual faith to accept the gift, when God quickens him. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22, and the natural man does not have that until after he has been quickened to a new life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand that you have a statement to make supporting your belief, but why not use the scriptures to support your belief.

You did not respond with your interpretation on the scriptures that I gave you telling how God forces the will of man to do his will.

I Did post scripture when I showed when Jesus cried over Jerusalem telling them it was HIS WILL to,gather them under his wing, but they were unwilling

he did not force them against their will, he gave them the freedom to come to him or reject him in faith in unbelief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your belief will not harmonize, if you consider all of the scriptures. You are misinterpreting many small words in the scriptures, such as, all, as many as, world, perish, in, of, whosoever, salvation, etc.

The inspired scriptures were not written for the purpose of instructing mankind on how to be delivered eternally. They do explain how that man/women are delivered eternally by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind.

The scriptures are directed to God's children, as instructions for living their lives as they sojourn here in this world

Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". There are many deliverances that God's children receive as they sojourn here in this world. Then there is an eternal deliverance by God's sovereign grace, without the help of mankind.

The natural man, until he has been regenerated, cannot see and believe in the things of the Spirit.

So you Have no proper response to the example I gave, you just made a strawman response.

you keep giving me your view, but scripture does not agree with you. I gave an example which proved it, and you totally walked around it

 

[Micaiah-imla]

How do you explain Romans 7:14-25? Had Paul been born of God?

The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14 will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness.

Only the person, such as Paul, who has been born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will repent of breaking a spiritual law

When we have been born again, and commit a sin, we lose our fellowship with God until we repent.

You are not harmonizing the scriptures.

In Romans 7:14-25 it is clear that Paul is showing the struggles that a carnal man deals with; for in Romans 7:5 he clearly states that what he is about to write refers to a man who was in the flesh.

Then he makes the distinction in Romans 8 of the believer in the Spirit who does not deal with the struggles mentioned in Romans 7.

The man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not born again yet, or is a person following the faith as a babe in Christ (much like OSAS’ers today) and has not graduated to the strong meat pertaining to obedience to righteousness (slaying the flesh; the old man).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I Did post scripture when I showed when Jesus cried over Jerusalem telling them it was HIS WILL to,gather them under his wing, but they were unwilling

he did not force them against their will, he gave them the freedom to come to him or reject him in faith in unbelief

You still are ignoring the scriptures that I gave you where God forces man's will to conform to God's will.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe he will stop killing.

Anyway the justice system in most countries is such that, once you are caught once, you won’t have a chance to repeat that

If he keep killing and not repent till he die Is he go to heaven?

 

[Jackson123]

I believe he will stop killing.

Anyway the justice system in most countries is such that, once you are caught once, you won’t have a chance to repeat that

Why you believe he stop killing? Is that because he repent and ask the Lord to come to his heart?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So you Have no proper response to the example I gave, you just made a strawman response.

you keep giving me your view, but scripture does not agree with you. I gave an example which proved it, and you totally walked around it

Luke 13:34, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto thee; how often would I gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not.

Those that God would gather under his wings were his disobedient children. Because he gave us freedom to choose how we want to live our lives is the reason that, although we are born again, we still, at times, reject his will, and yield our bodies to the temptations of our fleshly nature. When we do so, we lose our fellowship with him until we repent.

I believe the scriptures to teach that God has granted mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life as he sojourns here in this world, but God does not give mankind freedom to choose his eternal inheritance.

Eph 2 plainly explains that the natural man, at the time of being quickened, by God, to eternal life, was spiritually dead, with no ability to accept spiritual things that he can not discern, and thinks is foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[Scribe]

If he died he still would have went to heaven

This is a parable. The parable was given as a direct response to the Pharisees being upset that sinners gathered to him...
1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

The lesson of the parable is that of the attitude of the older brother being like the Pharisees. By telling the story the Pharisees are able to recognize that the older brother was wrong and should be GLAD that his brother who was a sinner was coming back home and being restored to the family. They were angry that sinners were coming to Jesus when they should have been glad. A parable has a way of getting someone to see something that just telling them outright might not have accomplished. Like when Nathan told David about the family pet lamb. Then David figuring out he was the one. The Pharisees heard the story and thought that the older brother was wrong before they snapped OH he is talking about us.

This parable is not about whether a christian gets born again and then leaves off serving the Lord to become a drunk and wanton whoremonger gets to still go to heaven. It is not about the theology of soteriology at all. It has nothing to do with the process of a backsliding christian. It had one purpose, to teach the pharisees that they had the wrong attitude toward their brothers who wanted to repent. It is a human story. The Father, the elder brother, the prodigal is a human story. It is not an allegory. Rejoicing over a sinner that repents is the lesson. There is no lesson about what happens if he did not come home. There is nothing in the story to tell you. Common sense tells you that would be a sad story. There would be no celebration, no party, no joy of the Father. If you insist on making it an allegory instead of a parable then you would be calling the fathers house heaven and if the boy did not come back home how could it be said he got to heaven?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In Romans 7:14-25 it is clear that Paul is showing the struggles that a carnal man deals with; for in Romans 7:5 he clearly states that what he is about to write refers to a man who was in the flesh.

Then he makes the distinction in Romans 8 of the believer in the Spirit who does not deal with the struggles mentioned in Romans 7.

The man in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not born again yet, or is a person following the faith as a babe in Christ (much like OSAS’ers today) and has not graduated to the strong meat pertaining to obedience to righteousness (slaying the flesh; the old man).

In Romans 7, Paul is clearly speaking of himself. If you are proclaiming that you have never committed a sin after you were born again, you are deceiving yourself, and the truth is not in you. 1 John1:8

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 13:34, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto thee; how often would I gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not.

Those that God would gather under his wings were his disobedient children. Because he gave us freedom to choose how we want to live our lives is the reason that, although we are born again, we still, at times, reject his will, and yield our bodies to the temptations of our fleshly nature. When we do so, we lose our fellowship with him until we repent.

I believe the scriptures to teach that God has granted mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life as he sojourns here in this world, but God does not give mankind freedom to choose his eternal inheritance.

Eph 2 plainly explains that the natural man, at the time of being quickened, by God, to eternal life, was spiritually dead, with no ability to accept spiritual things that he can not discern, and thinks is foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.

But wait
god gives freedom to chose life
but not eternal life?

Man that’s out there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you insist on making it an allegory instead of a parable then you would be calling the fathers house heaven and if the boy did not come back home how could it be said he got to heaven?

Because he was still his fathers son. He never stopped being the son if he died the father would go get him and bring him home just like our father does us

 

[Scribe]

Because he was still his fathers son. He never stopped being the son if he died the father would go get him and bring him home just like our father does us

And bury him in the field!