Baptism should accompany confessions of faith

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Agreed. But both the baptism of Jesus and our baptism are physical not metaphysical. Hence the one baptism spoken of by Paul in Romans 6:3 and Eph. 4:5-6. The one baptism spoken of in the great commission is a physical water baptism not metaphysical. No one can attest to a metaphysical baptism such as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the New Testament.

It's a spiritual baptism, not metaphysical. Spirit is more real than water. And what do you mean no one can attest to spiritual baptism. It's a seal in our hearts that witnesses to us in every moment.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:22​

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In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13​

 

[Lamar]

I received the HS the moment I was born again.

And you know this how? Esoteric knowledge?

John 1 - Buty as many as have recieved him to them he gave the right to be children of God. No baptism

No mention of remission of sins.

ohn 3. Just as moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world. He gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but has eternal life. For the son was not sent to judge the world. But that the world may be saved. Whoever believes in him is NOT CONDEMNED (SAVED) whoever does not believe is condemned already. Again, no baptism

Again, no mention of remission of sins.

John 3 - He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (Again no baptism)

(Again, no remission of sins)

John 5 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into (again, no baptism)

(again, no remission of sins)

John 6 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” (Again, no water baptism)

(Again, no remission of sins)

John 7 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said,out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [g]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Again, no baptism, in fact. We see the HS given BEFORE baptism. Just like we saw in Acts 10

Again, no remission of sins, in fact We see the HS given AT baptism. Just like we saw in Acts 2

According to your belief system, they must be baptized first. THEN they are saved.

so according to your belief system. These people could not be saved yet.. they had not completed their act of faith.

According to your belief system, they simply believe and are saved. THEN they are given the remission of sins.

so according to your belief system. These people did not have their sins forgiven yet but they are still saved by this act of faith.

There is no salvation without the remission of sins.

 

[Lamar]

It's a spiritual baptism, not metaphysical.

Explain the difference.

Spirit is more real than water. And what do you mean no one can attest to spiritual baptism. It's a seal in our hearts that witnesses to us in every moment.

Water is physical. Spiritual is not. Explain how one can attest to a metaphysical state?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And you know this how? Esoteric knowledge?

There is no salvation without the remission of sins.

How can you have eternal life without remission of sins?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Explain the difference.

Water is physical. Spiritual is not. Explain how one can attest to a metaphysical state?

As I said, spirit is more real than natural. The physical world is sustained by the spiritual realm. Metaphysics is a philosophy of man that has nothing to do with Christianity or the bible

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And you know this how? Esoteric knowledge?

Because something changed in me, and the word of God opened up to me like never before.

No mention of remission of sins.

If you do not have remission of sin, Your not a child of God

Again, no mention of remission of sins.

If you do not have remission of sin, you do not have eternal life

(Again, no remission of sins)


(again, no remission of sins)
(Again, no remission of sins)


Again, no remission of sins,

if you do not have remission of sin, non of the things jesus said are possible.

Wake up my friend. Your focused on your work of righteousness and not on God

in fact We see the HS given AT baptism. Just like we saw in Acts 2

lol. No they recieved the spirit because they repented. They were baptized because they recieved remission of sin.

According to your belief system, they simply believe and are saved. THEN they are given the remission of sins.

well it is deeper than this, even demons believe, no it is true saving faith. Whoever calls on the name of the lord. And yes, then they are given remssion of sin, by the washing and renewal of the HS.

so according to your belief system. These people did not have their sins forgiven yet but they are still saved by this act of faith.

There is no salvation without the remission of sins.

They were saved. Just like I was. Months before I was baptized in water.

Your right,, No one will be made a child of God. Will be given etertnal life. Will pass from death to life. Will be promised that he will be ressurected unless they have recieved remission of sin.

which means your whole post was just refuted

 

[Blade]

Hi RA pray you're so blessed! This part "How did we get away from this practice? " who is we? I don't know I can guess but all will be speculation. Some time your just by water and some want to get baptized. that never were or just want to again. So you might ask.. do you know believe in blah blah blah. Man were talking over two thousand years ago. What is written is just what we need.. all the other stuff.. they said they debated or agreed with cried about or got made over.. "I'm don't have to do that". On and on.

Sorry but we're all human. We read tiny parts and some how think they were living it perfectly if you will. Was there ever a time say baptizing "whoa man that person you just baptized.. did they even confess Jesus?" haha..

 

[Magenta]

Agreed. But both the baptism of Jesus and our baptism are physical not metaphysical. Hence the one baptism spoken of by Paul in Romans 6:3 and Eph. 4:5-6. The one baptism spoken of in the great commission is a physical water baptism not metaphysical. No one can attest to a metaphysical baptism such as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the New Testament.

Please tell.

John the Baptist attested to the baptism you said nobody could attest to (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33;
and also Jesus' words in Acts 1:5). Do you not believe them? Also, in order for Jesus to fulfill all righteousness, He had to
be baptized which was required of all priests before assuming their priestly duties, symbolizing a spiritual cleansing.

 

[Wansvic]

It's a spiritual baptism, not metaphysical. Spirit is more real than water. And what do you mean no one can attest to spiritual baptism. It's a seal in our hearts that witnesses to us in every moment.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:22​

​

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13​

Ephesians 1:13 states people who trusted Jesus were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise AFTER they believed the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. This points directly to the word of truth/gospel initially expressed in Acts 2. And later confirmed in conversion accounts recorded in Acts 8, 10, 19, etc.

Note what the people heard, believed and acted upon that made receiving the promised Holy Spirit possible:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:36-42

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Ephesians 1:13 states people who trusted Jesus were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise AFTER they believed the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. This points directly to the word of truth/gospel initially expressed in Acts 2. And later confirmed in conversion accounts recorded in Acts 8, 10, 19, etc.

Note what the people heard, believed and acted upon that made receiving the promised Holy Spirit possible:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:36-42

That's great and water baptism is great, and I encourage everyone to do it, but Cornelius and his clan received the baptism of the spirit before water baptism and I myself received it before being water baptized.

 

[Lamar]

How can you have eternal life without remission of sins?

You are correct. You cannot have salvation without the remission of sins hence the need for water baptism.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You are simply putting your own sensibilities above the written word of God.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You are correct. You cannot have salvation without the remission of sins hence the need for water baptism.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You are simply putting your own sensibilities above the written word of God.

No I'm not. I recommend everyone get water baptized. I'm simply questioning the absolute certainty many seem to have on the matter. How do you think religious folk of David's time would have reacted when he wrote that God told him sacrifices and offerings were not required? He was absolutely correct because he was a man with tremendous faith who foresaw and was living by faith in the future covenant. He had no recourse to offer sacrifice for sins in the wilderness, yet he remained faithful to God and didn't waver. But I'm sure he offered sacrifices as required by law when he was restored to the kingdom because that was the appropriate thing to do

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. Psalms 40:6​

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For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalms 51:16-17​

 

[Lamar]

John the Baptist attested to the baptism you said nobody could attest to (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33;
and also Jesus' words in Acts 1:5). Do you not believe them?

I most certainly believe what John the Baptist attested to but this is not true of personal claims of baptisms of the Holy Spirit today.

Just because someone claims a Holy Spirit baptism, that person cannot use these verses to validate their claim.

You are aware of this?

Also, in order for Jesus to fulfill all righteousness, He had to
be baptized which was required of all priests before assuming their priestly duties, symbolizing a spiritual cleansing.

This is a bold claim, what verses do you base this on?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ephesians 1:13 states people who trusted Jesus were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise AFTER they believed the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. This points directly to the word of truth/gospel initially expressed in Acts 2. And later confirmed in conversion accounts recorded in Acts 8, 10, 19, etc.

Note what the people heard, believed and acted upon that made receiving the promised Holy Spirit possible:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:36-42

the people in eph 1 were sealed with the HS after they believed.

No water baptism was included.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are correct. You cannot have salvation without the remission of sins hence the need for water baptism.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You are simply putting your own sensibilities above the written word of God.

you need to study the greek my friend.

Your eternity is in question because you will not study.

You have been warned numerous times from many members of CC..

 

[Lamar]

I recommend everyone get water baptized.

Recommend? Where is water baptism recommended?

David's psalms cannot be used to negate the obeying of the commands of God.

1st Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, “Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Water baptism is the moment of the remission of sins not some undefined threshold of faith and this is what you are implying.

Regardless of the bar you have set for faith alone to bring the remission of sins, your bar does not negate the need for obedience to water baptism.

 

[Lamar]

you need to study the greek my friend.

Your eternity is in question because you will not study.

You have been warned numerous times from many members of CC..

You think too highly of yourself.

I could be wrong. Is it possible that you could be wrong on this issue as well?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You think too highly of yourself.

I could be wrong. Is it possible that you could be wrong on this issue as well?

I think highly of myself?

When people tell me or suggest I study deeper I do. I do not keep insisting on the same notion over and over and over like you do.

In act.

repent is a second person plural command. In essence he is telling everyone to repent. those who do will receive the gift of the spirit.

Be baptized is a third person singular command, which means he now has shifted his command and directed it to certain individuals.

To determine who is is talking to. all we have to do is see what the baptism is in reference to. and we see it is in reference to receiving remission of sin.

Those are facts. Now you can go on and continue to base your interpretation of what is being said. or study to find the facts.

the only real question is does remission of sin happen because of baptism, or is baptism happen because one received remission of sin.

well even this is easy to determine, if repentance cause God to give whoever repented the gift of the spirit. well remission of sin already took place.

and all of this happens before the command to be baptized is received.

this is also prove by Peters words. "and those who believed (repented0 were baptized.

not to get remission but because they already had it.

so you claim you could be wrong.. But lookin gat the text. there is no possibility you could be right. then you want me to confess I may be wrong?

Well I must go by what the text (greek) says. not an english translation.

I also must take peters words and line them up with Jesus words in the book of John (we already went through these verses)

My interpretation remains. Yours does not. it contradicts.

 

[Wansvic]

That's great and water baptism is great, and I encourage everyone to do it, but Cornelius and his clan received the baptism of the spirit before water baptism and I myself received it before being water baptized.

Both are necessary regardless of sequence in which the experiences occur as revealed in scripture. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[Lamar]

I think highly of myself?

When people tell me or suggest I study deeper I do. I do not keep insisting on the same notion over and over and over like you do.

In act.

repent is a second person plural command. In essence he is telling everyone to repent. those who do will receive the gift of the spirit.

Be baptized is a third person singular command, which means he now has shifted his command and directed it to certain individuals.

To determine who is is talking to. all we have to do is see what the baptism is in reference to. and we see it is in reference to receiving remission of sin.

Those are facts. Now you can go on and continue to base your interpretation of what is being said. or study to find the facts.

the only real question is does remission of sin happen because of baptism, or is baptism happen because one received remission of sin.

well even this is easy to determine, if repentance cause God to give whoever repented the gift of the spirit. well remission of sin already took place.

and all of this happens before the command to be baptized is received.

this is also prove by Peters words. "and those who believed (repented0 were baptized.

not to get remission but because they already had it.

so you claim you could be wrong.. But lookin gat the text. there is no possibility you could be right. then you want me to confess I may be wrong?

Well I must go by what the text (greek) says. not an english translation.

I also must take peters words and line them up with Jesus words in the book of John (we already went through these verses)

My interpretation remains. Yours does not. it contradicts.

You most certainly think too much of yourself.

Your "understanding" of the Greek in Acts 2:38 does not line up with the recognized understanding to every Bible printed in English or any other language. You are implying a past tense view of this verse and you are wrong.

This is the verse:

Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

Those who were cut to the heart asked Peter what they should do, not what did Peter recommend.

You are no Greek scholar