a few notes as I read.
1. The passage says, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. while I agree it is a meeting, and it the lord coming to us. I do not see where it states we will immediately return with him. It just states we will be with him forever.
2. As for the word rapture. or more specifically, to be "caught up" I also agree, this was a latin translation or whatever from the greek. But it still in my view means the same. We are caught up "snatched" or "Siezed" into the clouds. where this meeting takes place.
as for returning. I am always limited by the fact we do not just meet, and come back. SOme things have to happen to us. Namely the bema seat judgment. The reciving of our glorified bodies. and everything else.
I am also limited to the fact we see resurrected being in the throne room with Christ as he opens the seals. How can this be if they have not yet been resurrected yet?
I am not for or against pre-trib or post trib. I believe it is a mystery and we will not know until it happens. All I can do is look to the word as a whole. and not just one small passage, and see what I see concerning end times and when and where the ressurection fits in.
Hope your feeling OK sis. I know your going through alot..
Thanks for caring! Prayers are always coveted. Today God gave me great hope. I saw a hand physiotherapist and she made a device for my left hand, (which has subluxed all the tendons), and ulnar drift. It has been extremely painful to play flute on our worship team, although I do sing. I wore this device she made fitted to the hand, for 3.5 hours. When I went to practise, my hand didn't hurt! So, God is good. Plus, I don't have cancer. (Another story!)
Anyway, getting back to your questions.
1. We will always be with the Lord when he returns. And when he returns, there will be the Judgement! And judgement doesn't not happen in heaven, it happens on earth. Have you ever wondered why people would be taken to heaven, then they would be taken back to earth to stand before the Bema? It seems funny people would go to heaven before that point. Even in Jesus day they believed in paradise, where believers would wait till The Messiah, or Christ came.
It doesn't say "meet and return" in every English Bible I've read. So, I understand your concern. But, as I said up in this post you quoted, that apantesin does not mean just "meet." It means "meet and return." Bauer, BDAG, the best lexicon says it is meet and return. Apantesin is only found 3 times in the NT. Each time what happens is to meet and return. Like the Christians of Rome did, when they went out to meet the dignitary, Paul, and then returned with him to the city. Luke wrote Acts 28:15, who has the best and most difficult Greek in the New Testament, just ahead of Paul. Both men were excellent in their use of Greek - vocabulary, grammar and rhetoric. They used this low frequency word, so that Greek readers would understand that we won't just "meet" Jesus in the air, we will meet and return. And we will return to the earth for the Judgement. If Paul and Luke had used a different word for meet, then I would be in error. But since both of them used this word, they were both good enough writers in Greek to use this word, where the circumstances demanded "meet and return."
2. Yes we will be caught up in the air. But not the clouds. Jesus is coming in the clouds. But, we will not necessarily go up that high to meet him. It could be a foot, a 100 feet or a thousand. But low enough the air is still breathable, as no one will have glorified bodies yet. Nor is there a word about going to heaven. It simply is not there, in the text, or any other verse. Besides, apantesin tells us we "meet and return," so going to heaven would directly contradict that word.
As for us seeing Jesus opening the seals, remember what sort of genre Revelation is! It is apocalyptic, which means "revealed." John revealed it, he was in a vision. Revelation is not to be taken literally. It is symbolic. John faithfully recorded all the things he was shown. But he didn't have to understand it. People have combed through every verse of Revelation to make a detailed end times scenario. But that is not the purpose of the book. It was to reveal end times apocalyptically. And it does this well. We don't yet understand a lot of the symbols, but because John saw it as part of his vision, doesn't mean that we will be there, too. Although God will reveal the meaning, in the end. John certainly has not revealed people were even there, at this point, just lots of angels. So, will we see this? Time will tell!
I do agree the end times are a mystery. Anyone who thinks they have unraveled that mystery are deluding themselves. And yes, we need to know much more than just 1 Thess 4:17. I was exegeting that verse, to show that dispensationalist interpretations of the rapture do not work with the Greek. But yes, so much more to learn and know. I really don't think God wants us to understand the symbolism yet. But when he returns, that is when we will see him face to face to face, and we will all know!
