I suppose I experienced the opposite of the so-called "repressed memory" there. Sorry about that!
Are We Approaching "that day", "the last day"?
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I suppose I experienced the opposite of the so-called "repressed memory" there. Sorry about that!
I haven't the time or inclination to refute the many errors in that link. I'll offer the following for anyone wishing to know the truth:
John Gill would be called an "historic premillenialist". He was a British Baptist (1697-1771) -
Gill believed in the "Spiritual Reign of Christ" as in his systematic theology -
http://www.gracesermons.com/hisbygrace2/bk5-ch14.html
Gill also believed in a premillennial reign of Christ, the "Personal Reign" -
http://www.gracesermons.com/hisbygrace2/bk7-ch8.html
John Gill in his commentary gives solid comments on the verses twisted from their meanings and for the most part, I find Gill excellent. If were to be a premillennialist, it would be of the John Gill kind. I prefer to think his "Spiritual Reign of Christ" describes the 1000 years. But, here is his online commentary and you'll find Matthew 24:1-36 edifying.
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/geb/matthew-24.html
The following is by the Methodist Joseph Benson of centuries past-
Matthew 24:32-35. "Now learn a parable of the fig-tree Our Lord proceeds to declare that the signs which he had given would be as certain an indication of the time of his coming, as the fig-tree’s putting forth its leaves is of the approach of summer; and that the time of his coming was at no great distance. For he adds, This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled, Hereby evidently showing that he had been speaking all this while only of the calamities coming on the Jews, and the destruction of Jerusalem. “It is to me a wonder,” says Bishop Newton, “how any man can refer part of the foregoing discourse to the destruction of Jerusalem, and part to the end of the world, or any other distant event, when it is said so positively here in the conclusion, All these things shall be fulfilled in this generation. And it seems as if our Lord had been aware of some such misapplication of his words, by adding yet greater force and emphasis to his affirmation, Matthew 24:35, Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away That is, heaven and earth shall sooner, or more easily pass away than my words; the frame of the universe shall sooner, or more easily pass away than my words shall not be fulfilled."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rbc/matthew-24.html
Yes, some in the distant past saw the end of the world in Matt. 24, but nothing like the modernists, dispensationalists teach it!
I agree, Cameron. The last verse of the book of Judges does seem to describe the world today in like manner to the time of the judges:
"In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes." (Judg 21:25, ASV)
It would pay you to use the cross-references in your Bible to see where that apocalyptic language is to be found in the OT. I'll hold to the words of Jesus as he expressed it as understood by OT knowledgable Judeans.
Example: Daniel 8:10 - "And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them." (not referring to those twinkling things we see up in the sky at night. = ) )
[just to note: Pre-tribbers (i.e. futurists) DO grasp the idea...
]
[just to note: Pre-tribbers (i.e. futurists) DO grasp the idea...
]I can't really tell for sure by the way you've written this ^ , but I just want to make clear to the readers that dispensationalists do not teach that Matthew 24 is referring at all to "the end of the world"...
...rather, it refers to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... The disciples' question to Jesus in verse 3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (when the "angels" will REAP)...
(note: not "the ends [plural] of the ages [plural]" as in 1Cor10:11; nor "the end [singular] of the ages [plural]" as in Heb9:26; and others which are also similar-sounding phrases but which are also distinct from each of these and each other...
, which I won't go all into here in this post.)As I put briefly in my Post #36 yesterday, Luke 21:32 states, "Truly I say to you that this generation will not have passed away until all [these things] shall have taken place."
-- https://biblehub.com/text/luke/21-32.htm
By verse 32's placement after verse 24, it makes it rather clear that everything in v.24 (some very "of lengthy-duration" items, including the "Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles UNTIL..." aspect [compare Rev11:2, speaking of the time-period specifically leading up to Christ's Second Coming to the earth, being within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period that John was going to be "SHOW[n]" per Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1--yet "future" to us) MUST NECESSARILY BE INCLUDED in v.32's "ALL [these things]";
This, coupled with the SEQUENCE ISSUES within the Olivet Discourse (which I also touched on a bit, in yesterday's post), provide ample evidence that "the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matthew 24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 AND DESCRIBED in Luke 21:8-11) must be PRECEDED BY the events spoken of in Lk21:12-24a,b (the 70ad events and "they shall be led away captive into all the nations..." [etc]), as spelled out by the words "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE...".
This means there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-[then]-FLEE" occurrences: one in the 70ad events (per Lk21:23,20) and one AFTER the 70ad events [I don't say "immediately after"] and also AFTER / FOLLOWING "the beginning of birth PANGS" [which "pangs" equivalent the SEALS--which themselves are part of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period that immediately leads up to and precedes His Second Coming to the earth / RETURN to the earth Rev19, yet "future"]
..."This generation shall not pass away TILL ALL shall have taken place" (Lk21:32) must necessarily INCLUDE everything having just been spoken of in v.24 (including its "UNTIL" thing expressed there--which is not referring to the so-called "Church age" as some conflate this to mean ["the TIMES of the Gentiles"... which started in 606/5bc and will not conclude until Christ' Second Coming to the earth.)
Regarding the phrase "this generation" (because v.32's "ALL" must INCLUDE everything v.24 had just covered), its force is moral (those opposing Christ will not pass away till His RETURN to the earth at Rev19--Compare Rev16:14-16/19:19,21/20:5 with that of Isa24:21-22[23] [<--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in this Isa passage, i.e. at His Second Coming to the earth, separated by TIME before the SECOND of the two "punish" words is carried out, i.e. at the GWTj])
Btw, Matthew 24:4-8 picks up at "the beginning of birth pangs" (which come [sequentially] AFTER the 70ad events, per Lk21:12!) and proceeds from there... including ITS OWN mention in vv.33-34 of "so likewise when ye [proleptic 'ye'] shall see all THESE things" (the things just described, that come AFTER the 70ad events, sequentially) and the same words "this generation" (describing things which Revelation also includes in its "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period [Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1] which specific, future, LIMITED time-period leads up to and concludes at Christ's RETURN to the earth in Rev19).
So, based on the specific wording in these passages, and the SEQUENCE ISSUES in His Olivet Discourse, I must disagree with the quote at top. = ) (...that's how prophecy works... One must pay careful attention to the details of the precise wording provided in Scripture--many times people tend to just blur things all together which are actually distinct, thus coming to incorrect / inaccurate conclusions
)Hope this post helps the readers understand my perspective on this particular matter. = )
I can't really tell for sure by the way you've written this ^ , but I just want to make clear to the readers that dispensationalists do not teach that Matthew 24 is referring at all to "the end of the world"...
...rather, it refers to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... The disciples' question to Jesus in verse 3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (when the "angels" will REAP)...
(note: not "the ends [plural] of the ages [plural]" as in 1Cor10:11; nor "the end [singular] of the ages [plural]" as in Heb9:26; and others which are also similar-sounding phrases but which are also distinct from each of these and each other...
Being brought up in dispensationalism and the Scofield Bible, we were taught the Olivet Discourse was supposed to be in our future, a 7-year tribulation prior to Jesus coming for his saints and then the millennium was to begin. That is a corruption of the Bible by dispensationalists. That view must be read into the Scriptures out of man's mind for it certainly was never seen in the Bible before the middle 1800s. Dispensationalism is Judaizing, a religious Zionism. Historic premillenniaism did not turn the 1000 years into a renewed Old Covenant, a new Jewish state.. Paul's rolling over in his grave as his writings have been so perverted! Yes, yes, I know he's with the Lord not in the grave. It took me years of study to lean those footnotes in Dispensationalist Bibles are NOT gospel truth, but contradicted by the Scriptures.
I can't really tell for sure by the way you've written this ^ , but I just want to make clear to the readers that dispensationalists do not teach that Matthew 24 is referring at all to "the end of the world"...
...rather, it refers to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"... The disciples' question to Jesus in verse 3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (when the "angels" will REAP)...
(note: not "the ends [plural] of the ages [plural]" as in 1Cor10:11; nor "the end [singular] of the ages [plural]" as in Heb9:26; and others which are also similar-sounding phrases but which are also distinct from each of these and each other...
The Scriptures teaching the resurrection and the judgment occurring on "the last day", is the "end of the world" as we know it. But dispensationalists end up with multiple resurrections, not just two of the historic premillennialists or the one by post-mils and a-mils.
Dispensationalism does not teach "a renewed Old Covenant" (I'm not denying that some dispensationalists misconstrue things), but instead Dispensationalism acknowledges that one of the purposes of the future Tribulation period [besides lifting Israel's "blindness / a hardening... UNTIL"] is to bring Israel into the New Covenant, see Hebrews 8:6-13 / Jer31:26-40... and Ezek37:11,12-14,20-23... etc);
and Dispensationalism also fully acknowledges what Hebrews 7:22 states: "22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant." - https://biblehub.com/hebrews/7-22.htm ;... https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/7-22.htm
Perhaps you've already read through past discussions which others and I have had on this point... but I would recommend (to save time by my not going into an entire long post here--no one really reads long detailed posts, I realize
) that you take a close examination of the precise words Paul used in 1Cor15:22-23[,24a], esp. the two distinct Grk words "EPeita" [v.23] and "eita [v.24a; a SEQUENCE word ONLY, with NO TIME-ELEMENT attached to it]"... and ask yourself WHY he distinguishes these (i.e. why didn't he use the word "eita" in v.23, like he does in v.24a??)...Also, that v.23's "BUT"-conjunction CONNECTS what Paul had just referred to in v.22b as a "FUTURE" occurrence (and then v.23's "BUT each IN HIS OWN ORDER [/RANK]"), with that which he's also saying throughout the entirety of v.23 (v.23 is ALL "future"... not backtracking to speak of Jesus' Own Resurrection that v.20 already covered)...
So I say, study this out... there are definite (biblical) REASONS why we state what we do (besides other points, I've not mentioned here in this post) = )
Compare
Joel 3:16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
with
Amos 1:1 The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.
2 And he said, The Lord will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
The book of Joel describes a worldwide pandemic that shuts down the world's economy because the Lord is declaring a worldwide Fast and Sabbath. He then says that this event tells you that the day of the Lord is at hand. That is the day of the great earthquake, and in the Bible all resurrections are associated with earthquakes. This great shaking of both the heavens and the earth would refer to the rapture where the dead in Christ rise first and then when they get to heaven there is no room left for Satan and the fallen angels and they are cast out.
Amos describes the situation two years before this event. We have two kings. Uzziah is illegitimate and enters the temple when he is not a priest and is covered with leprosy as a result. This is similar to Biden being illegitimate and being covered head to toe with crisis from the border, and inflation to nuclear war in Ukraine. The other king is Jeroboam who foments a civil war in which ten out of 12 tribes split and follow him, like Trump. He is mighty in battle, like Trump. And he turns Israel from God with idolatry, like Trump and his NFT cards.
Now both of these kings appear to be precursor to the Antichrist who sets himself up in the temple (like Uzziah) and who becomes the ruler over the world which is divided into ten kingdoms.
Therefore I would guesstimate that the stolen election in 2020 was 2 years before this great earthquake of the rapture, and that Antichrist's rise to power and setting himself up in the temple will be 2 years before the Lord returns to rescue the nation of Israel.
Joel 3:16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
with
Amos 1:1 The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.
2 And he said, The Lord will roar from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.
The book of Joel describes a worldwide pandemic that shuts down the world's economy because the Lord is declaring a worldwide Fast and Sabbath. He then says that this event tells you that the day of the Lord is at hand. That is the day of the great earthquake, and in the Bible all resurrections are associated with earthquakes. This great shaking of both the heavens and the earth would refer to the rapture where the dead in Christ rise first and then when they get to heaven there is no room left for Satan and the fallen angels and they are cast out.
Amos describes the situation two years before this event. We have two kings. Uzziah is illegitimate and enters the temple when he is not a priest and is covered with leprosy as a result. This is similar to Biden being illegitimate and being covered head to toe with crisis from the border, and inflation to nuclear war in Ukraine. The other king is Jeroboam who foments a civil war in which ten out of 12 tribes split and follow him, like Trump. He is mighty in battle, like Trump. And he turns Israel from God with idolatry, like Trump and his NFT cards.
Now both of these kings appear to be precursor to the Antichrist who sets himself up in the temple (like Uzziah) and who becomes the ruler over the world which is divided into ten kingdoms.
Therefore I would guesstimate that the stolen election in 2020 was 2 years before this great earthquake of the rapture, and that Antichrist's rise to power and setting himself up in the temple will be 2 years before the Lord returns to rescue the nation of Israel.
"No one knows the day or the hour. Not even The son of man. Only the father knows."
Those are Jesus' words on this subject. Not accurate maybe but along those lines. Please refer the Bible and Google it for chapter and verse.
The Anti Christ hasn't come yet. So, it's safe to say there might be some time before this happens. However it's our duty as Christians to be spiritually prepared at all times to meet our Creator.
Those are Jesus' words on this subject. Not accurate maybe but along those lines. Please refer the Bible and Google it for chapter and verse.
The Anti Christ hasn't come yet. So, it's safe to say there might be some time before this happens. However it's our duty as Christians to be spiritually prepared at all times to meet our Creator.
All ten virgins went to sleep, but five were wise and were prepared when it was announced the Bridegroom approached. The five foolish virgins weren't prepared. They thought they would always have time to replenish their oil; however, the Bridegroom came at a day and hour they didn't expect.
We must consider the rise of antisemitism when discussing the times, we’re living in. I’ve heard little to none from the end time prophets on the subject. For years I’ve ask myself the question, what would cause the American Jew to make a mass migration back to the land of Israel? The U.S.A. is probably the last country where the Jew has not felt the need to leave. The Jewish people were very comfortable in Germany, they had great possessions, and wealth, couldn’t give it up even though there were watchman on the wall telling them to leave. They hadn’t learned anything from their past. It seems to me history is repeating itself in our time and it will begin in the U.S.
I know understand what will cause most of them to return, more than likely the youth, since they are being targeted in the universities by anti-Zionist rhetoric which is the term for antisemitism. The cause of their demise in the U.S. is the result of carnal man (the wicked one) is finally allowed to show his true colors. God said I will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie and be damned. Because they with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV
The delusion has been sent. Adam is on full display in our time and the world has given him a platform to express his wickedness. The Jew is now becoming a target because they stand for everything that is God, once they are out of the way, the Christian will be next unless they assimilate which some churches are doing.
The next intifada is about to take place soon between Israel and the Palestinians when this begins you will see a critical rise in antisemitism in the U.S. and our own government will enable this to happen.
The Gentile dispensation is swiftly coming to an end.
"For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure and will not leave thee altogether unpunished." Jeremiah 30:11 KJV
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." Romans 11:25-27 KJV
I know understand what will cause most of them to return, more than likely the youth, since they are being targeted in the universities by anti-Zionist rhetoric which is the term for antisemitism. The cause of their demise in the U.S. is the result of carnal man (the wicked one) is finally allowed to show his true colors. God said I will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie and be damned. Because they with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV
The delusion has been sent. Adam is on full display in our time and the world has given him a platform to express his wickedness. The Jew is now becoming a target because they stand for everything that is God, once they are out of the way, the Christian will be next unless they assimilate which some churches are doing.
The next intifada is about to take place soon between Israel and the Palestinians when this begins you will see a critical rise in antisemitism in the U.S. and our own government will enable this to happen.
The Gentile dispensation is swiftly coming to an end.
"For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure and will not leave thee altogether unpunished." Jeremiah 30:11 KJV
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." Romans 11:25-27 KJV
It's poor exegesis of scripture to view eschatology, or any other subject, by comparing scripture with current events. Scripture should be compared to scripture.
A better understanding of biblical events would come from studying scripture. In the past, when scripture was being fulfilled God gave revelation of this.
Simply stated, if you are determining an understanding of scripture from current events, you may well be considerably off base. This is in my opinion why every generation believed they were the last and why they were so wrong.
A better understanding of biblical events would come from studying scripture. In the past, when scripture was being fulfilled God gave revelation of this.
Simply stated, if you are determining an understanding of scripture from current events, you may well be considerably off base. This is in my opinion why every generation believed they were the last and why they were so wrong.
N
notonmywatch
Guest
Not a problem.I suppose I experienced the opposite of the so-called "repressed memory" there. Sorry about that!
Is it possible to have a conversation on a subject in this website without being so staunch, religious theological idealists?
Did you object to the substance of the post or a perceived tone?
If it's tone, please accept my sincere apologies. If it's the substance, please share with me where I'm in error.
The word of God is a lamp unto our feet so obviously it is shedding light on what is happening daily.
We are supposed to pray daily that God lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, so again, the word of God is daily leading us.
The word of God is living. It is not simply a history book about things that happened 2-4,000 years ago or even earlier. Yes that is very helpful to understand the word, but first and foremost the word of God is something that we can eat today and will strengthen us today.
This does create an issue, many prophecies were fulfilled in the past and yet apply to the future. I believe that a prophecy is similar to a seed which grows into a tree. You can look at the seed and predict the fruit and just because this happened 3,000 years ago it can still happen 3,000 years later. Many of these prophecies are simply "if you sow this you will reap that". They can also be compared to a mandelbrot fractal. When you zoom in you see the exact same pattern as when you zoom out.
My point is that the Bible always applies to current events. It is foolish to think that it doesn't.
We are supposed to pray daily that God lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, so again, the word of God is daily leading us.
The word of God is living. It is not simply a history book about things that happened 2-4,000 years ago or even earlier. Yes that is very helpful to understand the word, but first and foremost the word of God is something that we can eat today and will strengthen us today.
This does create an issue, many prophecies were fulfilled in the past and yet apply to the future. I believe that a prophecy is similar to a seed which grows into a tree. You can look at the seed and predict the fruit and just because this happened 3,000 years ago it can still happen 3,000 years later. Many of these prophecies are simply "if you sow this you will reap that". They can also be compared to a mandelbrot fractal. When you zoom in you see the exact same pattern as when you zoom out.
My point is that the Bible always applies to current events. It is foolish to think that it doesn't.