Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?
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The prince that shall come would destroy Jerusalem, the nation of Israel, and scatter the Jews.
This is referring to Vespasian not the anti-christ.
The anti-christ is not mentioned in Daniel 9, so "he" must refer to some one previously named if the pronoun is used grammatically correct.
Jesus ended the need of animal sacrifice when he sealed the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31 with His blood on the cross after confirming it with many.
This is referring to Vespasian not the anti-christ.
The anti-christ is not mentioned in Daniel 9, so "he" must refer to some one previously named if the pronoun is used grammatically correct.
Jesus ended the need of animal sacrifice when he sealed the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31 with His blood on the cross after confirming it with many.
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@ombowstring 's Post #105, saying "I don't get your point"...
Did you read the paragraph I had put right above the video in that Post I linked? (The part about Rosenthal?... we could discuss that at some point...)
Did you read the paragraph I had put right above the video in that Post I linked? (The part about Rosenthal?... we could discuss that at some point...)
@ombowstring ... Yes, well D. Hocking was saying (either in this condensed video portion or in the longer version of this same msg) that Rosenthal (having written his book but not yet published it) came to agreement with D. Hocking when Hocking showed him the manuscript evidence of the "US" in Rev5:9 (which, Hocking also points out that G E Ladd had said [in his view] that *IF* the word IS "US" in that verse [v.9] it would bring him to conclude that it IS the Church [in Heaven] via "PRE-trib Rapture" [he's not a "pre-tribber"])--Hocking provides (in his talk / msg) the manuscript evidence that DOES indeed prove it says "US" (in v.9)... Rosenthal came to see this was indeed so (as a result of D. Hocking showing him this fact); but as Hocking points out, MR went ahead and published his already-written "pre-wrath" book...
My point was along those lines... does this help?
[Rosenthal's book was not convincing, btw...]
My point was along those lines... does this help?
[Rosenthal's book was not convincing, btw...]
Why do so many believe that God is not all powerful to have not allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed ? God use the Roman army to do the job. Just like He used them to kill Jesus. All at the same time The Jewish leaders got the Romans to kill Jesus YET He GAVE His life for us. God stopped the sun. Created the universe some antichrist some army could not have taken The City had He not wanted it.
Dispensationalism has such a low opinion of God the Father, God the Son God the Spirit.
Dispensationalism has such a low opinion of God the Father, God the Son God the Spirit.
^ @Beckie ,
consider:
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age"... as well as the many passages (re: Israel) using this "UNTIL [/ TILL]" word... He's not done with them... He has a place for Israel in His scheme of things (it is written already, and we cannot change that) = )
consider:
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age"... as well as the many passages (re: Israel) using this "UNTIL [/ TILL]" word... He's not done with them... He has a place for Israel in His scheme of things (it is written already, and we cannot change that) = )
Agreed!
And YES, (per Matt22:7 [see v.2 for CONTEXT]) "when the KING heard thereof, HE WAS WROTH: and HE SENT FORTH HIS ARMIES, and destroyed those murderers, and BURNED UP THEIR CITY" [70 ad events]... but He USED "the PEOPLE OF" (the prince THAT SHALL COME)--a specific "people". This does not make "the prince THAT SHALL COME" to have been Jesus ("the Messiah the prince" of verses 25 and 26a in Dan9, who was "CUT OFF" after the "62 Weeks [69 Weeks TOTAL]"), but it DOES show that "the KING" (per Matt22:7) was certainly IN CONTROL, just as He has "ORDAINED the Chaldeans [/Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT," like Hab1:6,12 SAYS!! (Matthew 22:8's "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" provides the SAME "SEQUENCE" issues I've already pointed out... this necessarily takes place AFTER those "70ad events"... meaning the "SAITH TO" part... [think: 95ad's writings...])
[Matt22:7's "HE [the KING / FATHER of the son] WAS WROTH" = Luke 21:23,20's "WRATH upon THIS people" = 70ad events]
And YES, (per Matt22:7 [see v.2 for CONTEXT]) "when the KING heard thereof, HE WAS WROTH: and HE SENT FORTH HIS ARMIES, and destroyed those murderers, and BURNED UP THEIR CITY" [70 ad events]... but He USED "the PEOPLE OF" (the prince THAT SHALL COME)--a specific "people". This does not make "the prince THAT SHALL COME" to have been Jesus ("the Messiah the prince" of verses 25 and 26a in Dan9, who was "CUT OFF" after the "62 Weeks [69 Weeks TOTAL]"), but it DOES show that "the KING" (per Matt22:7) was certainly IN CONTROL, just as He has "ORDAINED the Chaldeans [/Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT," like Hab1:6,12 SAYS!! (Matthew 22:8's "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" provides the SAME "SEQUENCE" issues I've already pointed out... this necessarily takes place AFTER those "70ad events"... meaning the "SAITH TO" part... [think: 95ad's writings...])
[Matt22:7's "HE [the KING / FATHER of the son] WAS WROTH" = Luke 21:23,20's "WRATH upon THIS people" = 70ad events]
@ombowstring ... Yes, well D. Hocking was saying (either in this condensed video portion or in the longer version of this same msg) that Rosenthal (having written his book but not yet published it) came to agreement with D. Hocking when Hocking showed him the manuscript evidence of the "US" in Rev5:9 (which, Hocking also points out that G E Ladd had said [in his view] that *IF* the word IS "US" in that verse [v.9] it would bring him to conclude that it IS the Church [in Heaven] via "PRE-trib Rapture" [he's not a "pre-tribber"])--Hocking provides (in his talk / msg) the manuscript evidence that DOES indeed prove it says "US" (in v.9)... Rosenthal came to see this was indeed so (as a result of D. Hocking showing him this fact); but as Hocking points out, MR went ahead and published his already-written "pre-wrath" book...
My point was along those lines... does this help?
[Rosenthal's book was not convincing, btw...]
My point was along those lines... does this help?
[Rosenthal's book was not convincing, btw...]
I haven't read Rosenthal's book for a number of years so I'll have to, and want to, read it again. Obviously, I can't summarize the book in a few paragraphs, but I do want to make a few key points now.
Chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation is key to understanding the reign of the beast, 666. As I recall, the abomination of desolation is described in verses 14 and 15. It is the image of the beast that people must worship or be killed. Before this, 666 suffers a mortal head wound and miraculously recovers. All the nations of the world will come under the power of the beast. And he will set up a global economic system whereby no man will be able to "buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
One other point -
John must have been describing an asteroid hitting the earth in the Book of Revelation when he wrote, Rev. 8:8 – “And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;”
The people of his day had no idea of a solar system or galaxies or asteroids. How else would he describe an asteroid impacting the earth other than to say it looked like “a great mountain burning with fire”?
Chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation is key to understanding the reign of the beast, 666. As I recall, the abomination of desolation is described in verses 14 and 15. It is the image of the beast that people must worship or be killed. Before this, 666 suffers a mortal head wound and miraculously recovers. All the nations of the world will come under the power of the beast. And he will set up a global economic system whereby no man will be able to "buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
One other point -
John must have been describing an asteroid hitting the earth in the Book of Revelation when he wrote, Rev. 8:8 – “And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;”
The people of his day had no idea of a solar system or galaxies or asteroids. How else would he describe an asteroid impacting the earth other than to say it looked like “a great mountain burning with fire”?
This is that fable that goes around the internet ( ), but is not based at all in Truth.
"Dispensationalism" does NOT say this.
Rumors on the worldwide web by poorly taught goobers repeating this fluff, does not make this statement (in your quote at top) true (that this is the "Dispensatinoalist" viewpoint--it isn't).
1) one should study the distinction between the biblical phrases: "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"--they are BOTH [/EACH] *biblical* phrases, but speak of (and cover the Subject of) DISTINCT things
(this, for one, debunks the fluffy rumor going around the internet [about "dispensationalists" supposed idea] that God was IGNORANT of certain things and ONLY "came up with PLAN B" [ ] because He was thrown for a loop when Israel rejected Christ... NO. [NOT AT ALL what "Dispensationalism" teaches, but people keep repeating this falsehood, that it DOES]);
2) according to 1Cor2:8, there were some things that it was necessary to be kept secret [/hidden / undisclosed] BEFORE the Cross, for reasons spoken of in this verse - https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-8.htm
), but is not based at all in Truth."Dispensationalism" does NOT say this.
Rumors on the worldwide web by poorly taught goobers repeating this fluff, does not make this statement (in your quote at top) true (that this is the "Dispensatinoalist" viewpoint--it isn't).
1) one should study the distinction between the biblical phrases: "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"--they are BOTH [/EACH] *biblical* phrases, but speak of (and cover the Subject of) DISTINCT things
(this, for one, debunks the fluffy rumor going around the internet [about "dispensationalists" supposed idea] that God was IGNORANT of certain things and ONLY "came up with PLAN B" [
] because He was thrown for a loop when Israel rejected Christ... NO. [NOT AT ALL what "Dispensationalism" teaches, but people keep repeating this falsehood, that it DOES]);2) according to 1Cor2:8, there were some things that it was necessary to be kept secret [/hidden / undisclosed] BEFORE the Cross, for reasons spoken of in this verse - https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-8.htm
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