Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation
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The antinomian says if you've an emergency to have sex, it's not a sin.
Obey your flesh first, oh wow, what am i dealing with here ?
Rewriting God's law isn't what Satan does best. His famous speech: surely you will not die; you can be as god; worship me and I will give you the world, etc.
Obey your flesh first, oh wow, what am i dealing with here ?
Rewriting God's law isn't what Satan does best. His famous speech: surely you will not die; you can be as god; worship me and I will give you the world, etc.
Beware the leaven of the Pharisee.The antinomian says if you've an emergency to have sex, it's not a sin.
Obey your flesh first, oh wow, what am i dealing with here ?
Rewriting God's law isn't what Satan does best. His famous speech: surely you will not die; you can be as god; worship me and I will give you the world, etc.
Acts 2:38 must be read alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) where forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not the ritual itself. Water baptism is a sign of that reality but not the source of it.
Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.” *What happened to baptism?
Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” *What happened to baptism?
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
In Acts 22:16, the cleansing happens as he calls on Christ, not by the water itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?
*So, the only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
That is very gnostic and how convenient. Great way to turn grace into a license to sin.
That is the way yeah, it is odd how one can reach this conclusion when John himself writes:
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:16
And not just that but she's treating the spirit and the flesh like they're two separate entities who don't even know each-other. lol
When Jesus told his apostilles to keep watch and they fell asleep He told them "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"
According to the other version the apostilles would have been like "Umm what. What are you talking about Teacher? I have no memory of what just happened"
There cannot be sin in the regenerated spirit within a person.
Full stop.
Maybe actually read and try to understand what @wattie wrote.
Those who preach against GRACE as taught in scripture, are in the end law keepers, and as Paul clearly writes "their condemnation is just."
Romans3:8
Further elaboration "grace as a license to sin" was also an accusation raised against Paul by the unbelievers of his time.
In fact he asserts that this perverted logic and accusation can only come from a heart of unbelief.
He was not impressed.
And yet that's what the so called once saved always saved people seek to do is continue living in sin as they claim to still be saved.
There's lots of lawlessness going around in the end times so this is not surprising at all.
The people i know that believe in osas are secure in their faith and therefore confident to express it..and so faithful believers.
A securely attached child is confident to explore. An eternally secure believer is confident to share.
From what I understand about Gnostic's is:
they do not believe Jesus was here in the flesh. Since no sin can ever please God
So they adapted to this as true. and a religion has sprout out because of this belief
They get this from no flesh and blood can please God, Romans 8:3 and other places.
So Jesus could not have been here in the flesh!
1 John 1 disagrees with Gnostic thinking
We ate, we touched, we had conversation. He was here in the flesh, we saw him, ate with him, talked with him
Yet, today after death burial and resurrection of Jesus, we no longer know him in any flesh. 2 Cor 5:16.
Now see Romans 8:1-3. No condemnation those that believe in Son as risen for them
Romans 8:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Therefore, we get to see what has gotten done through Son for everyone in 1 John 2.
So whoever thinks, believes Jesus was not never here in the flesh and blood are wrong per 1 John 1
And to not worry over sin is not a license to sin. Being under Law is not a license to sin either. Yet Under Law, sin takes occasion by the command to not sin, one sins worse! Romans 7
Being made aware of to not sin, to quit it, causes one, anyone to sin all the more. It assuredly did that to me, and wow is me, I need God to keep me straight and be 100% dependent on God Father in risen Son. 24/7
Take a look at yourself, how you doing under Law, are you sinning more than before aware to not sin?, in your place of worship, and definitely not confessing this to anyone? acting as you got it together, I did that for a long time and then saw to confess and did. then got Ostracized by the people of religion Luke 18:9-14 now I thank the lord for me to confess, regardless of anyone else's reactions.
If you think you not sinning, and you think you doing good, Are you self-righteous, proud a person better than others? Then you are not seeing what upholding Law is in humility between God and you, over being under Law to do perfectly or else you are not in, yet think you are?
I only say all. this for you and anyone else reading this to look at you, between God and you personally, thank you I am not accusing you at all, as you might Get thought of.
Ever notice Noah, was a drunk, Abraham was promised and yet lied about his wife, whom was his Sister to the King of Egypt, where that King had a warning dream from God to let Abraham go. David was an adulterer. Moses was a killer. Me I have done everything under the sun (Son) wrong. God saved me and will save all who will willingly turn to God as sorry over whatever they have done and might do again, God enters then and there for anyone that is sincere, will begin the new in each person in love and mercy to them too. Since no one can please God after the done work of Son. Thank you
God is to this day the only one righteous and whomever God chooses to be that who will only depend on Father as Son showed us all first in his earth walk for us all. Since no one else is perfect but God himself. As you already know this in you too. So if you are trying to be perfect, time to let go and just trust God in God's love and mercy of Son for you only too.
Father and Son are One, time to join in 100% trust to God alone, between God and you personally too, if you haven't done so already Love and mercy to all John 13:34
Psalm 103:12 100:4
Baptists generally believe that while Christians are called to live holy lives and should strive to avoid sin, true perfection or complete abstinence from sin is not possible on Earth due to inherent human nature.
After salvation, believers are expected to grow in holiness, but they will continue to struggle with sin throughout their lives.
Believers are delivered from the penalty of sin (eternal death) rather than the presence of sin in their daily lives.
What the Baptist meant is when you are saved you will slow down in sinning.
But they believe you cannot abstain from sin.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
If we hate sin, and do not want sin, and allow the Spirit to lead us we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We will be tempted but we can abstain from sin.
And God will deliver us from temptation.
A Spirit led person is not under the law because they have been forgiven and they are abstaining from sin.
Therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
A Spirit led person still has the capability to sin because they are in the flesh.
If we sin we must sincerely repent of the sin not wanting it anymore and mean it and allow the Spirit to lead us.
God knows the heart whether we are holding on to sin or not.
Some people repent of the act of sin but they hold on to the sin which is not repenting.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
If we hold on to sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away for God will not take away a sin we hold on to.
They say they cannot abstain from sin being in the flesh.
But they are wilfully sinning which means they are sinning on purpose.
But they have a choice and could of chose not to sin.
So what is the excuse.
And if they hate sin by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.
But some people do not understand that thinking they cannot abstain from sin.
So are they sincere that they cannot abstain from sin.
Or do they want to enjoy sin and have an excuse although they think they are sincere.
But many their motivation is to enjoy sin which they will want to believe they cannot abstain from sin and not making an excuse.
If they say they cannot abstain from sin then they are holding on to sin.
And not put in the effort needed to abstain from sin enjoying sin.
But the flesh will fail if trying to abstain from sin without the power of the Holy Spirit.
But they do not put in effort needed to abstain from sin enjoying sin.
For even if they believe they cannot abstain from sin if the sincerely put in the effort to abstain from sin they would decrease sin more.
But they like to enjoy the sin.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Some people deny the Spirit leading them because they will not let go of the flesh.
And love sin more than God.
Which they do not come to the truth.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
God said turn away from them because their hypocrisy causes people to not embrace Christianity.
And they could influence the saints in the congregation to engage in sin.
If we are led of the Spirit if we sin we forfeit repentance until we repent sincerely.
The people not led of the Spirit they are in a state of not repentance.
If we are led of the Spirit if we sin we are back under the law until we repent sincerely.
The people not led of the Spirit are in a state of being under the law.
A Spirit led person still has the capability to sin because they are in the flesh.
If we sin we must sincerely repent of the sin not wanting it anymore and mean it and allow the Spirit to lead us.
God knows the heart whether we are holding on to sin or not.
I have to say
I was in a Batist gathering. I got water Baptized there. I was told to repent and stop sin.
I, began new to stop sin, and searched out sin in me. I heard stop, so I tried and got worse at that one sin, deeply. I tried all the harder to not do that sin anymore ever again.
What Happened? I got worse as Romans 7 relates to me in this deception that got in me to do it and be right with God. Not seeing then, that no other flesh can please God but Son's that did it for me and all others as well, at the cross, more so in Son being risen Romans 8:1-3 Yet Death had to happen first to take away sin first. Then the new life to get given free of charge by God Father to all that choose to stand in belief to God no matter what! I settled that in me, I am forgiven by God thanks to Son. I remain that way even if I sin again and definitely did not want to, God knows I lie not!
So, I got worse, not ever wanting to. Yet did, then was in a bad habit as many are, you might have been yourself. yet by your post, I do not think so.
You talk in your post as if it is easy to not sin once under Law to not sin! That you never had any trouble are you by chance a pharisee Luke 18:9-14? Not accusing, just trusting God all in all, not self or anyone else.
Sorry. Any sin begins as a practice, then becomes habit if one continues in it. Then if one does not see to let go of their habit a character trait enters and is harder to see through and quit it through Faith given them from Father
Once Anyone sees truth from God they are forgiven one agrees to leave any and all sin behind them. Yet there is the Characteristic trait still hanging out to stress one, anyone out and go after to get help from others that are flesh men also. I read about the Pharisees seeking out at least one proselyte and making that person worse Thant they themselves.
Therefore one day I saw from God in Romans 7. It is no longer me doing that sin, it is Sin dwelling in me. I decided to stand in trust to God no matter what Col 1:21-22. Even though I still sinned I saw to put past behind me and continued in trust to Father of in risen Son Jesus
to straighten this error out. So over the years I continued exercising thanking God for Son taking away all sin for me. Yes I still for a long while Continued in what I was hating doing, yet did it anyways
I watched it peel away and leave, thanking God over this gift, that took a while to see through it and not be prideful anymore at all
I bounced in and out guilt and pride beset me every time
Now no more guilt or pride and am not claiming I got it and other do not. I am no better than anyone else thanks for your post
U
Undergrace1
Guest
This is Paul's core message. I found exactly the same. As he says:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
It was what went on, on the in side of me. I got saved at the age of ten. I became conscious of my shortcomings before God in a real and profound way. Then I reached puberty and my problems increased tenfold for along came impure thoughts. I knew sin was sin, whether committed on the outside or inside. The more I feared the impure thoughts would send me to hell the worse they got. It was only years later when I read Paul's message of grace, and realised my righteousness was faith in Christ not obeying the law, the sin lessened.
When people preach to you, inferring they do not commit sin, they are not holding obedience/not sinning to the same level you are. They mostly consider what goes on, on the inside of man as trivial and just excuse it. Its the only way they can speak as they do.
In my view, the people who do not do that, have the truest heart
thank you confess your wrongs one to the other and be freed
I did that part, when was on an Alter wanting to give a gift. I heard in me to go and find all I can that I had sinned against and ask each for their forgiveness, this included those that did not know it was me that did them wrong.
I put together a list and set out to do that as many as I could find and ask that from each person I had harmed
I came to one person that did not know I had done them wrong and stole from them. It was my second oldest brother
I confessed, I expected whiplash, I got forigven. I was surprised and did not expect that. Yet it was given me nd I was freed from my conscience over doing it, that I was sure God forgave me, yet that involved others.
And even my brother looks at me and said I see you are freed, I replied yes I am
Been learning new ever since, God is good all the time as good is God all the time
Being honest I have sinned and could again and have under Law, seeing differently now, to not even go there under Law ever again. Now upholdlding Law as Good, trusting God has got it all, thank you friend in risen Son
In John 3:16-21, it connects our belief in the Son with our obedience to the Law of God. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are committing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead for salvation.
The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it as the result. We can't earn our righteousness, salvation, or eternal life even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because either was never given as a way to do that in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was graciously given in order teach us what is intrinsically required in order to experience to gift of those things. Our gift of salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin would our lives continued to be directed as being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being doers of the Law of God. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to the Law of God has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of those works is the aspect of His gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present.
Repentance is not about perfection but about redirection. There is a difference between a sinner whose life is directed at being a doer of sin and someone who has repented and redirected their life towards being like Christ, who many not perfectly follow Christ, but who repents of their sin when they do not. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so verses like Romans 8:1 that speak about those who are in Christ are only referring to those who are following his example of walking in obedience to the Law of God, which again is not speaking about perfectly following Jesus, but about direction.