Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation

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Gideon300 said:
Read Romans 7. There is indeed a controversy within each believer, a war between flesh and spirit. So yes, it is contradictory.
"For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want." Galatians 5:17

So the question for each believer is whether or not they are obeying the impulses of the flesh, which gives rise to sin, or walking in the Spirit, which is victory over sin. Victory is ours from day one, but who realises that from the beginning? And who has never ever given into the lust of the flesh?
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“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17, 19-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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HeIsHere said:
rebuttals like @HigherGospel offers using twisted logic.
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Lady, you're like the most confused person here going from one side of the room to the other contradicting yourself in the process.
You got some problems.
I'm just glad they're not my problems.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I don't think so. Basically, the belief you are holding is gnostic IMO. The Valentinian gnostics believed they would be saved no matter what they did in life.
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On a serious note, I suspect they have arrived at their concept of "security" based on the wrong reasons, but I would have to read their writings to know, which I have not.

I read a post on this by @sawdust in reply to you, and I think she had a valid point as well.
 
Gideon300 said:
Read Romans 7. There is indeed a controversy within each believer, a war between flesh and spirit. So yes, it is contradictory.
"For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want." Galatians 5:17

So the question for each believer is whether or not they are obeying the impulses of the flesh, which gives rise to sin, or walking in the Spirit, which is victory over sin. Victory is ours from day one, but who realises that from the beginning? And who has never ever given into the lust of the flesh?
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I know about that, but i'm not so confused or arrogant to say "I'M SAVED" after i just robbed a bank.
 
Gideon300 said:
Have you ever taken a pen from work to use at home? How about making a little extra claim on your tax return? No difference. Sin is sin.
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Agreed but you’re contradicting again.
In one post you say you’re sinless and in another you say you’re a sinner.
 
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So this is the pattern: if you say that sinning is unacceptable to God, we'll accuse you of committing little ridiculous "sins" to try to guilt trip you into shutting up.
 
Eli1 said:
Thank you for clearing this up.
In this post here which made me question you are saying that even if you keep sinning you’ll still go to Heaven.
So, we’re good now.
Thank you.
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I think what we're seeing is the belief that we are in a constant state of sin based on the misunderstanding of what righteousness is and the belief that we are totally unable to work righteousness.

If you tell people that we have to act righteously to enter heaven, you will get push back with insinuations that you are constantly committing sins yourself, like "stealing" a pencil from work, or "lying" by calling in sick to work, being angry with someone, etc. Someone even recently posted that dropping things and forgetting things are sins. So how dare you point out their sins when you yourself are sinning all of the time.

This seems to be the state of the church:

"How dare you point out my sin of murdering my brother when you are constantly committing sins like watching TV, smoking, eating too much, etc. So whadayasay, since we're all in this miserable sinners' boat together, and can't do anything righteous because we're totally depraved, why don't we make a gentleman's agreement? You don't mention my sins and I won't mention yours. Deal? If you agree to this deal then you can continue as an upstanding member of the church. If not, then go look for a church elsewhere, hypocrite"
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I think what we're seeing is the belief that we are in a constant state of sin based on the misunderstanding of what righteousness is and the belief that we are totally unable to work righteousness.

If you tell people that we have to act righteously to enter heaven, you will get push back with insinuations that you are constantly committing sins yourself, like "stealing" a pencil from work, or "lying" by calling in sick to work, being angry with someone, etc. Someone even recently posted that dropping things and forgetting things are sins. So how dare you point out their sins when you yourself are sinning all of the time.

This seems to be the state of the church:

"How dare you point out my sin of murdering my brother when you are constantly committing sins like watching TV, smoking, eating too much, etc. So whadayasay, since we're all in this miserable sinners' boat together, and can't do anything righteous because we're totally depraved, why don't we make a gentleman's agreement? You don't mention my sins and I won't mention yours. Deal? If you agree to this deal then you can continue as an upstanding member of the church. If not, then go look for a church elsewhere, hypocrite"
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This is called confession but with a non-Catholic twist? :eek:

:ROFL:
 
Gideon300 said:
Have you ever taken a pen from work to use at home? How about making a little extra claim on your tax return? No difference. Sin is sin.
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“If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

but if ye have respect to persons, ( he’s talking about making a rich well dressed person favored and treated better than a poor one dressed poorly ) ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i agree if we keep most of Gods laws but we break one little law , one time , we’re the same as everyone else we’ve sinned and fallen short of the glory of God . We’re a sinner in need of repentance and atonement
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I will let scripture speak for itself. Assume "her" means the flesh and "death" means eternal death. This is the spirit of the fear of the lord speaking

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Revelation 2:23
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Sadly, you did not provide the definition of what the fear of the Lord is that the Lord gave us in His Word:
(It's time to up your game)

What is the fear of the Lord ???

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way, And the perverse mouth I hate.

More scripture concerning fear Christians need to be aware of:

The fearful will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8)

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Romans 13:4
If thou do that which is evil, be afraid



Cameron143 said:
Telling someone that individuals still sin after being saved is not the same as taking sin lightly.
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Sure it is because you fail to share what God says in His Word concerning how to cease from sin and then you claim people living in sin are still in right standing before the Lord all of which is false doctrine and is what false teachers claim who are not skillful in the Word of Righteousness because they are still in diapers after all these years.



Cameron143 said:
Also, perhaps you can tell us what the nothing is that can separate one from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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God loves everyone that is in hell. God's love does not prevent anybody from going to hell, if it did then universalism would be a reality because God said in His Word (John 3:16) that He so loved the entire so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Once someone becomes a believer, they are expected by the Lord to live for Him walking in the Spirit being led by the Holy Spirit based on God's Word - not living for self, ignoring the leading of the Lord false claiming to still be saved. These people get this garbage from false teachers in false "churches" who have a form of godliness but deny power thereof



Cameron143 said:
But perhaps you can enlighten us as to how someone who has been born again is unborn again.
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Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
( they should allow the Holy Spirit to LIVE in them as it is He that will do the good works as they submit to the Lord )

What's at issue here is when a born again person sins, they become corrupt because they turned away from the Lord in order to sin against Him doing what they know they should not be doing and they decided to do it anyway.

You claim in error that they do not which is the false claim that we can live in sin and still be saved. According to Galatians 6:7-8 this is mocking God claiming mankind does not reap what he sows.

That was satan's deception to Adam and Eve in the garden was that they could sin and not die spiritually, and sadly folks like yourself have been deceived by the same lie as you refuse to accept the whole counsel of God and are instead following carnal man made teachings that opposed God's Word because thery are based on satan's deceptions and scripturte twisting.

It's sad to see you take the wide path that leads to death. The good news is you're still breathing so there is time for you to REPENT but time is short.
 
HigherGospel said:
Sadly, you did not provide the definition of what the fear of the Lord is that the Lord gave us in His Word:
(It's time to up your game)

What is the fear of the Lord ???

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way, And the perverse mouth I hate.

More scripture concerning fear Christians need to be aware of:

The fearful will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8)

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Romans 13:4
If thou do that which is evil, be afraid





Sure it is because you fail to share what God says in His Word concerning how to cease from sin and then you claim people living in sin are still in right standing before the Lord all of which is false doctrine and is what false teachers claim who are not skillful in the Word of Righteousness because they are still in diapers after all these years.





God loves everyone that is in hell. God's love does not prevent anybody from going to hell, if it did then universalism would be a reality because God said in His Word (John 3:16) that He so loved the entire so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Once someone becomes a believer, they are expected by the Lord to live for Him walking in the Spirit being led by the Holy Spirit based on God's Word - not living for self, ignoring the leading of the Lord false claiming to still be saved. These people get this garbage from false teachers in false "churches" who have a form of godliness but deny power thereof





Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
( they should allow the Holy Spirit to LIVE in them as it is He that will do the good works as they submit to the Lord )

What's at issue here is when a born again person sins, they become corrupt because they turned away from the Lord in order to sin against Him doing what they know they should not be doing and they decided to do it anyway.

You claim in error that they do not which is the false claim that we can live in sin and still be saved. According to Galatians 6:7-8 this is mocking God claiming mankind does not reap what he sows.

That was satan's deception to Adam and Eve in the garden was that they could sin and not die spiritually, and sadly folks like yourself have been deceived by the same lie as you refuse to accept the whole counsel of God and are instead following carnal man made teachings that opposed God's Word because thery are based on satan's deceptions and scripturte twisting.

It's sad to see you take the wide path that leads to death. The good news is you're still breathing so there is time for you to REPENT but time is short.
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Alot of gobbledygook. You couldn't show how someone is unborn again from scripture. Don't worry. It's not there.
Also, you couldn't show how someone in Christ is separated from God. Don't worry. It's not there.
You believe God casting someone into hell is an act of love?
 
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