Another Salvation Thread: Sin and Salvation

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HeIsHere said:
Salvation is a gift.
It takes one act of faith, received once in time, not over a lifetime.
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Justification is once for all time. Justification reconciles us to God through Christ's death, but we are saved in his life which is lived in through faith for one's entire life.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved in his life. Romans 5:10​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Justification is once for all time. Justification reconciles us to God through Christ's death, but we are saved in his life which is lived in through faith for one's entire life.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved in his life. Romans 5:10​
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So one's ongoing faith in this lifetime establishes one's place in heaven in the next life, and if this faith is not ongoing, one is in the precarious place of losing one's justification?

Is this your position?

So then life in heaven is a reward and not a gift?

Correct?
 
HeIsHere said:
So then life in heaven is a reward and not a gift?
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Isn't that what you teach? Rewarded for making the right "moral decision" (<= your words) to believe?

The flesh pleases God by choosing to believe what it hears as foolishness?

That which it is opposed to?
 
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HeIsHere said:
So one's ongoing faith in this lifetime establishes one's place in heaven in the next life, and if this faith is not ongoing, one is in the precarious place of losing one's justification?

Is this your position?

So then life in heaven is a reward and not a gift?

Correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, but a reward isn't something that's earned, it's a gift. Hold on to it. Guard it.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:8-9​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Yes, but a reward isn't something that's earned, it's a gift. Hold on to it. Guard it.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:8-9​
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I am quite sure Paul makes it clear that we cannot put God in our debt and that salvation is a completed gift, no strings attached.

I doubt we can come to any agreement on this, I have studied it up and down for many years, any scripture which on the surface appears to teach salvation can be revoked/lost/repealed/forsaken, whatever term one wants to use, in context states nothing of the kind.

A first principle of scripture is that salvation is secure, it is a completed gift and is received by faith through grace for those who trust in God for it.
This is the summit statement .

I will stick with it, I have yet to meet a single argument that can offer a rebuttal to Paul, except those silly "triple axe murder" :rolleyes:

rebuttals like @HigherGospel offers using twisted logic.
 
HeIsHere said:
A first principle of scripture is that salvation is secure, it is a completed gift
and is received by faith through grace for those who trust in God for it.
This is the summit statement .
Click to expand...
You have to hear first. Not all hear, though you disagree with Jesus on that point among many many others.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Sure, but what happens if a person loses their faith and denies Christ? Do you think they will still be saved?
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Does a parent chasten their child?

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:31

Do you think God cannot deal with those who are His own?
 
HeIsHere said:
I am quite sure Paul makes it clear that we cannot put God in our debt and that salvation is a completed gift, no strings attached.

I doubt we can come to any agreement on this, I have studied it up and down for many years, any scripture which on the surface appears to teach salvation can be revoked/lost/repealed/forsaken, whatever term one wants to use, in context states nothing of the kind.

A first principle of scripture is that salvation is secure, it is a completed gift and is received by faith through grace for those who trust in God for it.
This is the summit statement .

I will stick with it, I have yet to meet a single argument that can offer a rebuttal to Paul, except those silly "triple axe murder" :rolleyes:

rebuttals like @HigherGospel offers using twisted logic.
Click to expand...
You believe you can't be lost by the lord.

But I wonder who enables this 🙃
 
HeIsHere said:
Does a parent chasten their child?

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:31

Do you think God cannot deal with those who are His own?
Click to expand...
Do you now believe God reveals Himself to people in personal unique ways to bring (or return) them to belief???
 
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The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believers spirit, means that if they sin..any kind of sin.. they will experience chastening, discipline etc. ..but this indwelling presence from Jesus is eternal. It's eternal life..not temporary. So the underlying presence, despite the believer falling, remains by the grace of Jesus.

Salvation isn't based in our efforts, but His payment for our sins. It's a free gift.

John 3:16, 36. 5:24, 6:40, Romans 10:9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9
 
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HeIsHere said:
Does a parent chasten their child?

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:31

Do you think God cannot deal with those who are His own?
Click to expand...

I know he can deal with those who want to work with him. I think he will deny those who deny him. Paul included himself in this statement

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Timothy 2:12​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I know he can deal with those who want to work with him. I think he will deny those who deny him. Paul included himself in this statement

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 2 Timothy 2:12​
Click to expand...


He is not referencing eternal life here but rewards in heaven.
 
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Eli1 said:
Very contradictory post here too.
In one post you say you’re sinless and in another you say that even a bad thought is a sin.
Not sure why you’re so contradictory with this topic, with others that I’ve talked to you, you’ve been very clear but it is what it is.
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Read Romans 7. There is indeed a controversy within each believer, a war between flesh and spirit. So yes, it is contradictory.
"For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want." Galatians 5:17

So the question for each believer is whether or not they are obeying the impulses of the flesh, which gives rise to sin, or walking in the Spirit, which is victory over sin. Victory is ours from day one, but who realises that from the beginning? And who has never ever given into the lust of the flesh?
 
HeIsHere said:
He is not referencing eternal life here but rewards in heaven.
Click to expand...

what’s being referenced here ?

“ God Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And here ?

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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