Another look at John 10.

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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What you call “seeking the approval of God” we call “obedience.” Jesus specifically said, “You are my friends—IF—you do as I say.” All I have to do to get the “approval”” of God is obey Him. James 1:22-25 tells us to be “Doers” of His word, to continue in his Law (commandments) and be a “doer of the WORK!” Not just a “hearer.” Christian’s who are seeking salvation by saying “we don’t have to do anything—Christ has done it all,” “once we are saved, we can never be lost,” have subscribed to the lies of Satan. A “lazy, do nothing religion is exactly what Satan knows will appeal to the most people. It is a false security. Add to that, the lie that “work” in religion is a “bad” word and can never be done or it’s not grace and you have the complete false doctrine that appeals to the most people and will cause you to lose your soul. Wake up! Open your eyes. Study the Bible for yourself! Really see what God says.
What you call obedience is your best attempt of outward conformity to the commandments of God. No one ever kept any commandment by attempting to keep a commandment. Commandments are kept as we walk in the power of the Spirit of Christ. He can and has and does keep every commandment perfectly. And the only time anyone has ever fully obeyed is as the are not living, but Christ is living in them.
You can't even tell me everything you need to do to keep the 1st commandment. You are welcome to try. And if you can't even tell me what is required of an individual in the commandment, how then do you conclude you are obedient?
And works are a great thing. Jesus is always at work. Thus, one moving with Him is equally busy.
So I am neither against obedience or works. I just don't want all my effort being burnt up. I prefer gold,silver, and precious stone.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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The context surrounding a verse is so important. Verses are not little “islands”. Sitting all by themselves in a “sea” of words. The context of a passage is necessary to get a true understanding of the passage.

In John 10, Jesus is using an analogy of a shepherd and his sheep. Obviously, this analogy is about Jesus and His followers. His “sheep” follow him because they “know” Him. We understand these “sheep” are the “saved.” Jesus says no one, not “thieves, or robbers” in verses 1, 8, and 10. And not “strangers” in verse 5, and not “hirelings in verses 12 and 13. Can steal or take the sheep away from Him. Verse 29. This illustrates the security of the believer who follows the “good shepherd”, Christ. These verse are used as “proof” that a saved person can’t lose his salvation. But that isn’t what this passage is portraying. This IS about “sheep” getting STOLEN, not LEAVING! That is not the same thing. It is true that when a saved person is IN THE FOLD OF Christ, no one can STEAL them away. However, this story DOES NOT address the issue of a saved person LEAVING the fold of Christ; thus scripture only says they can’t be taken away by another person or some OUTSIDE force.

Here is another story told by Jesus that DOES teach the TRUTH about “can a saved person lose his salvation.” It’s in Luke 15:4-7. Again we are talking about “sheep” and the good shepherd. Christ.
“What man of you, having 100 sheep IF HE LOSES ONE OF THEM does not leave the 99 and go after THE ONE WHO IS LOST? SO Jesus CAN LOSE A SHEEP after all!! Did some “stranger” steal this sheep? NO! This speep LEFT OF HIS OWN FREE WILL. HE left the fold of Christ and HE WAS LOST—not just physically in this story—HE WAS LOST SPIRITUALLY! I know this because in verse 7 JESUS calls him A “SINNER WHO REPENTS” and identifies him as the one who was lost from the 99 others. This is proof that a child of God can leave God and be lost.
John 10 is not even talking about the same thing —much less “proof” that a saved person can’t leave Christ and be lost.
So basically you're arguing that the power of God that draws us in and transforms us into new creatures, by resurrecting our dead spirits and reconciling them to our Father, the creator of everything, is something we can experience first hand and then walk away from?

That we can have the veil lifted, that we can see in truth the price paid for our sin, that we can now KNOW God is real and Jesus is the only way to Him and the wholeness we were created to have with Him..... and walk away from it. I can't speak for anyone else, but I couldn't. Maybe you could, but I'd have to argue that you never knew Him, and you've never truly experienced the real power of God. That you went out from us because you were never of us.

Again I do not understand the the need to argue the weakness, confusion, and ignorance of God in this way. A God who saves those who will throw it back in His face. A pointless God that just saves and hopes we act good enough afterwards. Really a cosmic probation officer that has no real control over His creation, just a nice guy God that gives some of us a chance.

This is not the God that saved me, nor the God that keeps me. This is not the God I read about in scripture either. This is a weak and pathetic God that I would want nothing to do with. My God saves in POWER and Jesus loses NONE of who the Father gives Him. I could NEVER walk away from my King, and NOT because I'm strong or good enough, but because He keeps me and guides me to ALL truth.

Look, you can not lose your salvation, but I don't mean that in the "I'm saved and can now sin as much as I want with no worry" kind of way most like to paint it when I say that. What I'm talking about can only be understood by those who've been born again in truth. Otherwise there will always be a missing piece in your walk with Him. Heck even when I believed we could lose our salvation, and I did believe this after being born again so I'm not trying to judge anyone for believing this, but even when I did believe this to be true I thought the same thing. "If I choose to come to Jesus am I then trapped? Can I not choose to walk away?". I would always preface this with "I could never walk away from Him, and don't see how anyone could, but I believe the choice is there".

See I had too high a view of our "choice", and too low a view of His power. We don't seek God, we are drawn to Him and we don't choose to repent, we are granted repentance as a gift. Our choice can no more save us than it can "unsave" us. It's all by His power.
I know most will turn this straight into "he is a Calvinist so dismiss anything he says, he believes God chooses who goes to hell".
Well for the record I'm not, and have never read ANYTHING of Calvin's, and do not call myself one, but I do believe my statement is biblical, and my experience lines up with it in every way as well. I don't expect my experience to be evidence for anyone but myself, and don't use it as such, but if it didn't all line up I most likely wouldn't hold to it because the other viewpoint is what dominates all the churches around me, so I'm sure I'd still think that way too if God didn't open my eyes to it.
 

SaysWhat

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Jan 17, 2024
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Is that what you get from that story? Read for yourself. Had the lost sheep already repented before the Good shepherd sought him? Maybe, because he was lost and in trouble. We can’t tell from the information given, when the sheep repented. It only says he did. Does this story in any way hint, or imply that the shepherd didn’t care about the lost sheep unless he’s repented? I see a shepherd concerned about one of his own. He had no way of knowing (in the story) whether the lamb was sorry or not. But these things are not as important as the question of whether this story told by Jesus is showing the possibility of apostasy. Be honest with yourself—your soul’s salvation depends on it.
A good shepherd will go after the lost sheep no matter what. That is what Jesus is saying.

Be honest and know this is a debate and your life doesn't dependent on it.
 

GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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Even though believers have free will I don't believe that a genuine born-again Christian would ever repudiate their saving faith and lose salvation. I believe that God's saints are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28) and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty. :)
Oh, I see. Being raised in the Baptist denomination, I used to believe that, too, but I hope you have seen why I changed my opinion and will reconsider as you read every passage of GW I cite, because if God were going to nullify volition it would have been loving to force everyone to believe and be sealed from the get go.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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One of my favorite Leonardo DiCaprio movies is called Inception.

Basically: Leo and his team invade the subconscious area of the brain of
of this particularly loathsome man and implant thoughts in his head so
cleverly that he will never suspect they aren't his own.


Well; I'll probably come across as a kook for saying it, but I honestly believe
the paranormal world has the ability to do inceptions; and has been doing
them for years undetected.


Eph 2:1-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in
which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the
ruler of the kingdom of the air: the spirit who is now at work in those who
are disobedient.
_
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Oh, I see. Being raised in the Baptist denomination, I used to believe that, too, but I hope you have seen why I changed my opinion and will reconsider as you read every passage of GW I cite, because if God were going to nullify volition it would have been loving to force everyone to believe and be sealed from the get go.
I was raided in the Roman Catholic church (which strongly opposes OSAS) but I now attend a Baptist church. It's not about universalism or fatalistic determination but a new creation in Christ and God's omniscience and preservation. God infallibly knows who his saints are but we don't.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
6,038
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The one place on earth we might expect to be off limits to demonic
influences would've been the upper room with Jesus and his men just prior
to his arrest. But no, the Devil was there.


John 13:21-30 . . Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified: I tell you the
truth, one of you is going to betray me. His disciples stared at one another,
at a loss to know which of them he meant. One of them, the disciple whom
Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. Simon Peter motioned to this disciple
and said: Ask him which one he means.


. . Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him: Lord, who is it?

. . Jesus answered: It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when
I have dipped it in the dish. Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to
Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan
entered into him.


Well; if even as sacred a place as that upper room was open to paranormal
activity, then just how much reliable spiritual information can visitors hope
to find on these internet forums where diverse ideas about Christ and
Christianity are offered like the wide variety of low cost junk for sale in a
flea market?
_
 
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Even though believers have free will I don't believe that a genuine born-again Christian would ever repudiate their saving faith and lose salvation. I believe that God's saints are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28) and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty. :)
So every scriptures warning believers about the possibility of falling away is needless and really DECEPTIVE since TRUE believers can never fall away. However an abundance of scriptures say that completing our journey and obtaining the inheritance of eternal life is contingent upon our meeting the conditions set forth in the Gospel which teach us that not only must we believe but we must CONTINUE believing and walking in Him.

24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. IF IT DOES, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And THIS IS THE PROMISE that He Himself made to us: eternal life.…
(1 John 2:24)
Possessing eternal life depends on our remaining/continuing in the gospel we heard
If we do that we will remain in the Son and the Father
And this actively continuing in the Son and Father IS ETERNAL LIFE
What we have in the end depends on what we do with in the present
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
15,250
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The context surrounding a verse is so important. Verses are not little “islands”. Sitting all by themselves in a “sea” of words. The context of a passage is necessary to get a true understanding of the passage.

In John 10, Jesus is using an analogy of a shepherd and his sheep. Obviously, this analogy is about Jesus and His followers. His “sheep” follow him because they “know” Him. We understand these “sheep” are the “saved.” Jesus says no one, not “thieves, or robbers” in verses 1, 8, and 10. And not “strangers” in verse 5, and not “hirelings in verses 12 and 13. Can steal or take the sheep away from Him. Verse 29. This illustrates the security of the believer who follows the “good shepherd”, Christ. These verse are used as “proof” that a saved person can’t lose his salvation. But that isn’t what this passage is portraying. This IS about “sheep” getting STOLEN, not LEAVING! That is not the same thing. It is true that when a saved person is IN THE FOLD OF Christ, no one can STEAL them away. However, this story DOES NOT address the issue of a saved person LEAVING the fold of Christ; thus scripture only says they can’t be taken away by another person or some OUTSIDE force.

Here is another story told by Jesus that DOES teach the TRUTH about “can a saved person lose his salvation.” It’s in Luke 15:4-7. Again we are talking about “sheep” and the good shepherd. Christ.
“What man of you, having 100 sheep IF HE LOSES ONE OF THEM does not leave the 99 and go after THE ONE WHO IS LOST? SO Jesus CAN LOSE A SHEEP after all!! Did some “stranger” steal this sheep? NO! This speep LEFT OF HIS OWN FREE WILL. HE left the fold of Christ and HE WAS LOST—not just physically in this story—HE WAS LOST SPIRITUALLY! I know this because in verse 7 JESUS calls him A “SINNER WHO REPENTS” and identifies him as the one who was lost from the 99 others. This is proof that a child of God can leave God and be lost.
John 10 is not even talking about the same thing —much less “proof” that a saved person can’t leave Christ and be lost.
“John 10, Jesus is using an analogy of a shepherd and his sheep. Obviously, this analogy is about Jesus and His followers. His “sheep” follow him because they “know” Him.”

“The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:6-11‬ ‭

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23-25‬ ‭

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭
 
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Also, the Early (Pre-Augustinian) Church believed God's plan was based on His foreknowledge of the choices humans WOULD make but that He did not determine what their choices would be.
Justin Martyr, 110-165 AD
From Justin's writings we see that “foreknowing” concerns knowing something ahead of time, rather than predestining/forcing something to occur. Justin goes on to say:
"For He foreknows that some are to be saved by repentance, some even that are perhaps not yet born. In the beginning He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing the truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God; for they have been born rational and contemplative. And if any one disbelieves that God cares for these things, he will thereby either insinuate that God does not exist, or he will assert that though He exists He delights in vice, or exists like a stone..."
 
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Even though believers have free will I don't believe that a genuine born-again Christian would ever repudiate their saving faith and lose salvation. I believe that God's saints are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28) and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty. :)
A. I don't believe that a genuine born-again Christian would ever repudiate their saving faith and lose salvation.
You may not see how it could happen but the Apostles apparently considered it a possibility or they would not have warned us about it
28For the LORD loves justice and will not forsake His saints. They are preserved forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off.
(Psalm 37:28)
The fact that the Lord does not forsake us does not mean that we cannot walk away from Him:

15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says: 16“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”
17Then He adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” 18And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed....
(Hebrews 10:15-17)

Still, even for this person the possibility that one so blessed can turn away and reject the covenant remains.
23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. 25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
(Hebrews 10:23-25)

26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
(Hebrews 10:26-29)
The danger here is not fatherly chastisement (which is redemptive) but PUNISHMENT
 
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You can get mad at your daddy and walk away, say you "disown" him..... but he's still your daddy.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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You can get mad at your daddy and walk away, say you "disown" him..... but he's still your daddy.

When the prodigal son was away from his father, his father considered him DEAD. Also notice that the father didn't force his son to not leave them. It was only when the prodigal son was willing and actually returned did the father consider him alive.

Luke 15:32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

That's how God sees our relationship with Him. He will never force us to stay but we are considered dead apart from Him if we choose to leave. Also there exists the opportunity to come back to Him, and fortunately in the parable, the son came back, but in real life that's not always the case.


💒
 
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You can get mad at your daddy and walk away, say you "disown" him..... but he's still your daddy.
This is not an equivalent comparison. Our relationship to our earthly fathers cannot exists because of a physical event we had nothing to do with. our mothers. We do not have this relationship with God. After being born separate from him to a race that is estranged from His spirit. We had to choose to believe in Him and His gospel and to be to submit to Him. Only then did we become His child.

…49 Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.
(Matthew 12:49-50)
Here Jesus says that what brings a person into relationship with the Father is doing His will. Only the Gnostics taught that certain specially chosen people were naturally His children by virtue of their creation.
 

Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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I'm confused: Are "you" folks (B & mailman) agreeing or disagreeing whether a Christian is free to repudiate his saving faith?
We disagree, emphatically.
 
Apr 7, 2014
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A. I don't believe that a genuine born-again Christian would ever repudiate their saving faith and lose salvation.
You may not see how it could happen but the Apostles apparently considered it a possibility or they would not have warned us about it
28For the LORD loves justice and will not forsake His saints. They are preserved forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off.
(Psalm 37:28)
The fact that the Lord does not forsake us does not mean that we cannot walk away from Him:

15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says: 16“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”
17Then He adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” 18And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed....
(Hebrews 10:15-17)

Still, even for this person the possibility that one so blessed can turn away and reject the covenant remains.
23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. 25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
(Hebrews 10:23-25)

26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
(Hebrews 10:26-29)
The danger here is not fatherly chastisement (which is redemptive) but PUNISHMENT
In Hebrews 10:26, to sin willfully carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, habitual, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So, in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
 
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So every scriptures warning believers about the possibility of falling away is needless and really DECEPTIVE since TRUE believers can never fall away. However an abundance of scriptures say that completing our journey and obtaining the inheritance of eternal life is contingent upon our meeting the conditions set forth in the Gospel which teach us that not only must we believe but we must CONTINUE believing and walking in Him.

24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. IF IT DOES, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And THIS IS THE PROMISE that He Himself made to us: eternal life.…
(1 John 2:24)
Possessing eternal life depends on our remaining/continuing in the gospel we heard
If we do that we will remain in the Son and the Father
And this actively continuing in the Son and Father IS ETERNAL LIFE
What we have in the end depends on what we do with in the present
Those who remain in what they heard from the beginning (the gospel) demonstrate that faith was firmly rooted and established from the start. Now those who do not remain demonstrate otherwise. Just like in 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 we see that saving belief in the gospel holds fast to the gospel in contrast with believing in vain which is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose.

Those who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe the gospel). Their belief was never firmly rooted and established from the start. Hence, do not remain, continue.
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
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When the prodigal son was away from his father, his father considered him DEAD. Also notice that the father didn't force his son to not leave them. It was only when the prodigal son was willing and actually returned did the father consider him alive.

Luke 15:32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

That's how God sees our relationship with Him. He will never force us to stay but we are considered dead apart from Him if we choose to leave. Also there exists the opportunity to come back to Him, and fortunately in the parable, the son came back, but in real life that's not always the case.


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I've always thought that the prodigal son parable was about the Jews and Christians as we became known , or rather about the two covenants that God made , one with the Jews and one with us . We read that the elder son had obeyed his father's rules , this represents the law of Moses and all it means in Jewish life even still today . The Jews r the firstborn witnesses . The younger son , us Christians , we have been off sinning and having all kinds of worldly experiences . God forgives us through Christ . ( The Jews found no forgiveness under the law ) . So the two covenants r reconciled to their father who is God . They r both loved .